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	<title>Comments on: The official Jaime Garcia injury freak out thread</title>
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	<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2008/09/03/official-jaime-garcia-injury-freak-thread/</link>
	<description>Baseball&#039;s Future in the Gateway City</description>
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		<title>By: Chris O'Leary</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2008/09/03/official-jaime-garcia-injury-freak-thread/comment-page-1/#comment-2568</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris O'Leary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 12:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=849#comment-2568</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Chris, I’d also like to hear any thoughts you have on McClellan. I think he’s been laboring and would like for them to just shut him down the rest of this season. Clearly he’s had some history of trouble, to say the least. Do you have any observations/thoughts regarding him?&quot;

I have some video that I&#039;ll try to post.

He&#039;s not terrible but he&#039;s a bit borderline. He may have a slight timing problem, which is never good.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Chris, I’d also like to hear any thoughts you have on McClellan. I think he’s been laboring and would like for them to just shut him down the rest of this season. Clearly he’s had some history of trouble, to say the least. Do you have any observations/thoughts regarding him?&#8221;</p>
<p>I have some video that I&#8217;ll try to post.</p>
<p>He&#8217;s not terrible but he&#8217;s a bit borderline. He may have a slight timing problem, which is never good.</p>
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		<title>By: Pitchers Hit Eighth</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2008/09/03/official-jaime-garcia-injury-freak-thread/comment-page-1/#comment-2564</link>
		<dc:creator>Pitchers Hit Eighth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 05:33:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=849#comment-2564</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;And how long before we find out that K-Mac’s arm is fried? His ERA in his last 10 appearances is a Kelvin Jimenez-like 7.36.&quot;

Wouldn&#039;t be the first time.  Yet Duncan continues to insist this guy should be ready to be a starter next season.

Too much injury history, already too many innings on the arm this season, needs to be more comfortably in the 50-55 IP range, IMO, to be successful for an entire season.

With a reasonable bullpen, that would be a great contribution.  They&#039;ve just asked too much from a guy who hasn&#039;t thrown more than 60 IP since 2004, when, you guessed it - he hurt his elbow in his last season as a full-time starter.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And how long before we find out that K-Mac’s arm is fried? His ERA in his last 10 appearances is a Kelvin Jimenez-like 7.36.&#8221;</p>
<p>Wouldn&#8217;t be the first time.  Yet Duncan continues to insist this guy should be ready to be a starter next season.</p>
<p>Too much injury history, already too many innings on the arm this season, needs to be more comfortably in the 50-55 IP range, IMO, to be successful for an entire season.</p>
<p>With a reasonable bullpen, that would be a great contribution.  They&#8217;ve just asked too much from a guy who hasn&#8217;t thrown more than 60 IP since 2004, when, you guessed it &#8211; he hurt his elbow in his last season as a full-time starter.</p>
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		<title>By: beau</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2008/09/03/official-jaime-garcia-injury-freak-thread/comment-page-1/#comment-2562</link>
		<dc:creator>beau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 01:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=849#comment-2562</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Garcia was a great discovery, overlooked down by the Rio Grande.  The Cards worked him hard for 1.5 years, before he came down with the sore elbow last season.  By that time, Duncan had not even seen him yet.   

One of Garcia&#039;s best pitches is a curve.  That can hard on an elbow or as Wainwright has found out, a finger.  

Garcia rested up late last year.   But his elbow became a problem again.   He should return in 2010 and could work as a reliever for a year and then the organization can decide whether he should return to starting.  He could be terrific in the limited role of reliever.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Garcia was a great discovery, overlooked down by the Rio Grande.  The Cards worked him hard for 1.5 years, before he came down with the sore elbow last season.  By that time, Duncan had not even seen him yet.   </p>
<p>One of Garcia&#8217;s best pitches is a curve.  That can hard on an elbow or as Wainwright has found out, a finger.  </p>
<p>Garcia rested up late last year.   But his elbow became a problem again.   He should return in 2010 and could work as a reliever for a year and then the organization can decide whether he should return to starting.  He could be terrific in the limited role of reliever.</p>
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		<title>By: Stl_Zoot</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2008/09/03/official-jaime-garcia-injury-freak-thread/comment-page-1/#comment-2561</link>
		<dc:creator>Stl_Zoot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 00:36:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=849#comment-2561</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Anyone else wonder if there is a connection between the org focus on, throw sinkers from a high arm slot, and the rash of injuries?”

No.

A sinker is actually a very safe pitch to throw because it requires pronation which protects the elbow.

A more likely theory would be DD’s emphasis on teaching everyone the cutter (cut fastball), which like the slider requires powerful supination (which focuses the load on the UCL).

Also, throwing from a higher arm slot won’t raise injury rates. However, it might impact one’s control by making it harder to avoid a big head jerk (ala Okajima).

“I have been worried ever since I heard the advice that mulder and more recently flores got. Someone was trying to get flores to stand more upright and throw with less drive towards the plate acording to the anouncers. That just sounds like a sure way to hurt yourself since you are then using just your arm and shoulder to generate most of the energy to throw the ball”

If true, you could argue that this is questionable advice. However, the stride is generally over-rated as a source of power. What is much more important is hip/shoulder separation.

Thanks for the info, do you think you are some kind of mechanics expert or something?          ;)  haha]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone else wonder if there is a connection between the org focus on, throw sinkers from a high arm slot, and the rash of injuries?”</p>
<p>No.</p>
<p>A sinker is actually a very safe pitch to throw because it requires pronation which protects the elbow.</p>
<p>A more likely theory would be DD’s emphasis on teaching everyone the cutter (cut fastball), which like the slider requires powerful supination (which focuses the load on the UCL).</p>
<p>Also, throwing from a higher arm slot won’t raise injury rates. However, it might impact one’s control by making it harder to avoid a big head jerk (ala Okajima).</p>
<p>“I have been worried ever since I heard the advice that mulder and more recently flores got. Someone was trying to get flores to stand more upright and throw with less drive towards the plate acording to the anouncers. That just sounds like a sure way to hurt yourself since you are then using just your arm and shoulder to generate most of the energy to throw the ball”</p>
<p>If true, you could argue that this is questionable advice. However, the stride is generally over-rated as a source of power. What is much more important is hip/shoulder separation.</p>
<p>Thanks for the info, do you think you are some kind of mechanics expert or something?          ;)  haha</p>
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		<title>By: Merry CRasmus</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2008/09/03/official-jaime-garcia-injury-freak-thread/comment-page-1/#comment-2560</link>
		<dc:creator>Merry CRasmus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 23:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=849#comment-2560</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was a strong advocate of using the baby gloves on Garcia early on.  I backed off it eventually.  It may have been inevitable anyway...who knows.  I&#039;m bummed about it though.

Chris, I&#039;d also like to hear any thoughts you have on McClellan.  I think he&#039;s been laboring and would like for them to just shut him down the rest of this season.  Clearly he&#039;s had some history of trouble, to say the least.  Do you have any observations/thoughts regarding him?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was a strong advocate of using the baby gloves on Garcia early on.  I backed off it eventually.  It may have been inevitable anyway&#8230;who knows.  I&#8217;m bummed about it though.</p>
<p>Chris, I&#8217;d also like to hear any thoughts you have on McClellan.  I think he&#8217;s been laboring and would like for them to just shut him down the rest of this season.  Clearly he&#8217;s had some history of trouble, to say the least.  Do you have any observations/thoughts regarding him?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: DriverZn</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2008/09/03/official-jaime-garcia-injury-freak-thread/comment-page-1/#comment-2559</link>
		<dc:creator>DriverZn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 22:41:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=849#comment-2559</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Motte was fun to watch.  Saw a great FB and 2 iffy secondary pitches.  One looked like a cutter and the other a splitter or changeup.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Motte was fun to watch.  Saw a great FB and 2 iffy secondary pitches.  One looked like a cutter and the other a splitter or changeup.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: shaneo69</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2008/09/03/official-jaime-garcia-injury-freak-thread/comment-page-1/#comment-2558</link>
		<dc:creator>shaneo69</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 22:39:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=849#comment-2558</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jason Motte!

Nice debut.   1 1/3, one hit, no runs.   25 pitches, 21 strikes, including 7 fouls by Augie Ojeda.   

Tony and Dunc must be beside themselves watching Motte mow down the D-Backs after trotting out Franklin and Izzy all year.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason Motte!</p>
<p>Nice debut.   1 1/3, one hit, no runs.   25 pitches, 21 strikes, including 7 fouls by Augie Ojeda.   </p>
<p>Tony and Dunc must be beside themselves watching Motte mow down the D-Backs after trotting out Franklin and Izzy all year.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: shaneo69</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2008/09/03/official-jaime-garcia-injury-freak-thread/comment-page-1/#comment-2557</link>
		<dc:creator>shaneo69</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 22:25:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=849#comment-2557</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And how long before we find out that K-Mac&#039;s arm is fried?   His ERA in his last 10 appearances is a Kelvin Jimenez-like 7.36.

You&#039;d think with the expanded rosters, they wouldn&#039;t have to keep pitching him everyday...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And how long before we find out that K-Mac&#8217;s arm is fried?   His ERA in his last 10 appearances is a Kelvin Jimenez-like 7.36.</p>
<p>You&#8217;d think with the expanded rosters, they wouldn&#8217;t have to keep pitching him everyday&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: DriverZn</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2008/09/03/official-jaime-garcia-injury-freak-thread/comment-page-1/#comment-2556</link>
		<dc:creator>DriverZn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 21:59:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=849#comment-2556</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Chris
&quot;A sinker is actually a very safe pitch to throw because it requires pronation which protects the elbow.

A more likely theory would be DD’s emphasis on teaching everyone the cutter (cut fastball), which like the slider requires powerful supination (which focuses the load on the UCL).&quot;

This leads me to another question that I have asked before.  I once did a quick analysis of the pitch types pitchers threw as Cards vs with other teams for those that moved since the data was available.

What I found was the team does seem to favor sliders and cutters while opossing the changeup.  Never understood this.

BTW: I have no problem with pitchers throwing sinkers.  My bigger issue is the tinkering with mechanics to make it a primary pitch for pitchers that didn&#039;t start with that natural action.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Chris<br />
&#8220;A sinker is actually a very safe pitch to throw because it requires pronation which protects the elbow.</p>
<p>A more likely theory would be DD’s emphasis on teaching everyone the cutter (cut fastball), which like the slider requires powerful supination (which focuses the load on the UCL).&#8221;</p>
<p>This leads me to another question that I have asked before.  I once did a quick analysis of the pitch types pitchers threw as Cards vs with other teams for those that moved since the data was available.</p>
<p>What I found was the team does seem to favor sliders and cutters while opossing the changeup.  Never understood this.</p>
<p>BTW: I have no problem with pitchers throwing sinkers.  My bigger issue is the tinkering with mechanics to make it a primary pitch for pitchers that didn&#8217;t start with that natural action.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: shaneo69</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2008/09/03/official-jaime-garcia-injury-freak-thread/comment-page-1/#comment-2555</link>
		<dc:creator>shaneo69</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 21:16:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=849#comment-2555</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So do any of you think that any of our current minor league pitchers will become solid starters under Duncan?    Or are we going to continue relying on DD to work his magic on cheap journeyman like Looper, Lohse, Wellemeyer, Pineiro, Suppan, Woody, and even Carpenter?   I think we&#039;re more likely to go after Pavano than Burnett this offseason.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So do any of you think that any of our current minor league pitchers will become solid starters under Duncan?    Or are we going to continue relying on DD to work his magic on cheap journeyman like Looper, Lohse, Wellemeyer, Pineiro, Suppan, Woody, and even Carpenter?   I think we&#8217;re more likely to go after Pavano than Burnett this offseason.</p>
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