Comments on: Rough on the Diamond

By: Dennis

Dennis — Sat, 18 Oct 2008 04:14:45 +0000

For what it is worth, did you know that Eddie Degerman was a high school teammate of Ryan Braun at Granada Hills High School located in the San Fernando Valley in So Cal?

By: southeast redbird

southeast redbird — Sat, 18 Oct 2008 01:34:22 +0000

I am wondering if you could name any pitchers who they could have drafted in place of these players? Maybe they should have signed someone like Andrew Brackman? How about a few years ago, Dbacks signed Neighborghal (spelling), the hard thrower from GT who couldn’t pitch, who I thnk is done with the game.
Remember, Cardinals draft for slot, and those who you think should have been taken sooner wouldn’t sign for those slots. You sign what you can afford and who will take it, that seems to be the way. Drafting college juniors or seniors is a lot more economical than out of HS. And unless the HS player is a true phenom (Rick Porcello, Madison Bumgartner or Clayton Krenshaw) it’s a real gamble for the money they want.

BTW, first rounder in 2007 Casey Weathers to have TJS, another early round pick that I know having TJS as well, and a second rounder has had some shoulder issues (all college players). Didn’t a Pirate first rounder a few years ago have to have TJS? It’s very hard to find a college pitcher that has had NO injury issues along the way. Injuries reduce your worth and the possibilities. I am assuming that all of these college pitchers were injury free (and most remain) when they signed their contracts but as stated above, things happen.

By: Easy

Easy — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 23:28:19 +0000

Red Baron,
Thanks for responding. I do realize that several of these guys still have a chance at making a contribution. However, the three guys you mention were all drafted within the first two rounds of their drafts and have put in at least two years as pros without putting up distinguished records. I also have some hope for MOrt but only as a lower end starter. Furnish’s record looks like a good one for a tenth round choice. I like what I hear about Kopp from people who know better than I but injuries have kept him from proving himself one way or another. The point is that better players could have probably been had at the point they were drafted and the players that we did draft could have been had a few rounds later. Having said all that I am very happy that the system has been restocked with a lot of interesting prospects.

By: southeast redbird

southeast redbird — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 23:15:59 +0000

I am not sure I get this.
Whoever you draft, most likely will never see a day above AAA. I am going to say out of an entire draft for one team, one, maybe two will make it.
Luhnow is a stats guy. He gave an analysis of how they draft pitchers on the birdhouse. They chart then the human factor comes in, he stated it himself.
In my opinion, guys with very high velo, already pitching too much in college can be a disaster waiting to happen. A pitch to contact guy is the best to have in any rotation, he throws less than necessary, and keeps the team busy on the field. Saves the arm. He has to know when to go for the strike out. Mid relievers and closers are completely different type of pitchers.
I have seen many of the young guys pitch, I think they all bring something different. Maybe the problem is they want to make them all the same once they arrive, which is a starter (is that why they implemented the piggyback system).

By: giveml

giveml — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 14:32:23 +0000

I doubt there is anyway to find out, but I am just curious if this demographic is particularly a Luhnow choice or if these are players scouts are pushing for? Scouts love tools and radar gun readings.

By: saytreykid

saytreykid — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 14:06:36 +0000

Just a follow up on the previous post. It makes sense to have a good mix of polished college pitchers and hi-ceiling hi schoolers to keep the pipeline full and continuing to be restock your system, for trades, etc but especially if you want to move talented players through the system faster as seems to be the case here lately under the new GM – MO.

This “philosophy/concept” of drafting diamonds in the rough goes contrary to that strategy also, so on several different levels this drafting tatic is senseless!

By: BigJawnMize

BigJawnMize — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 12:59:13 +0000

Jonathan

Thanks for stopping by. If there are any photos or youtubes of brad tossing in the AFL could you let us know. I would like to see how he mechanics look currently.

BJM

By: saytreykid

saytreykid — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 12:12:47 +0000

Good insight into the Cardinals backward way of thinking on taking pitchers. It’s consistently backward if nothing else. Everyone once in a while you have to roll the dice but not this way e.g. How is Rick Porcello doing in the Minors now?

Even though they believe in pitch to contact philosophy, it obviously makes more sense to select college pitchers who are more polished at that strategy in the first few rounds and then select the high ceiling power pitchers with lower picks becaue they are more of a long shot if only to use them as trade chips down the line for clubs who prefer power pitchers until we get rid of our current management and way of thinking.

More polished college pitchers have a better chance of moving through the system faster and power pitchers have a better chance in the bullpen if nothing else which can make them move faster also. Better return on your investment in a shorter time.

Plus you give the opposing team different looks which makes it infinitely harder to play against us. Makes too much sense for the Cardinals I guess!!

By: kyle

kyle — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 07:40:21 +0000

this is a joke….pitchers take longer to develop..i bet several of these picks will pan out long term…the finish line is still way off in the distance….

By: theredbaaron

theredbaaron — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 02:37:49 +0000

Erik-

Todd I look at more as being a reliever to starter conversion, rather than a guy they drafted as a raw college upside gamble. Boggs probably does belong on this list, but I couldn’t really figure out the best way to approach him, what with the transferring and football and all. Plus, honestly, I was trying to keep this to a manageable length, so he got cut.

Easy-

While they haven’t had a bunch of slam dunks, by any means, I wouldn’t be completely down on the strategy. I’m a little doubtful that the club will end up getting a meaningful contribution from McCormick, simply because of the number of setbacks he’s had healthwise, but I think Mort, Kopp, and Furnish could all still be meaningful contributors at some point along the line. Ottavino I’m not real high on, and Daley seems to have developed a severe case of Ankielitis. At the very least, it’s a very interesting, Moneyballish draft strategy, going against the convention in an attempt to find an underutilised segment of player.