It’s no secret the guys with amazing recognition skills have great eyesight but I wonder how much is done to help players with average or less-than-average eyesight.

Sorry, Hugo, I’d been posting frequently with Erik and TRB and didn’t realize another person was joining.

My bad, but I guess I think along the same lines as you as well as the others.

And another thought, as for your last paragraph, do you think Aaron Miles fits that bill? Or maybe not quite enough power?

We must think along the same lines, because as I was working up a brief analysis of Tyler Greene’s swing (and as I studied it earlier), I kept thinking Duncan in the other batters’ box, sort of. But yeah, I see some similarity.

These two are definitely not alone in the higher levels of baseball when it comes to this outside, off-speed challenge.

To me, in order to be accomplished at the higher levels of batmanship, you sort of become highly proficient in pull hitting or centered hitting, the latter often labelled as a “spray hitter,” as you are undoubtedly aware. It is only the hitters–prime example, Pujols–that have the ability to hit productively to all fields, that have earned a doctorate, in a manner of speaking, in two different majors of hitting.

But Greene/Duncan, yeah, similar challenges on different sides of the dish.

Duncan’s difficulties are more pronounced, in my opinion, because of three main factors.
1) He has probably taken far more ABs with injury than any of us realize.
2) He simply is not as efficient in hitting through the middle and to the opposite field.
3) He’s facing the highest level of competitive hurlers.

During the last season, I believe I posted a few bio-mechanical items relative to Duncan’s swing before I knew he had these lingering injuries. Either way, however, injury or not, I believe both Duncan and Greene would serve themselves and their respective teams far better if they became more proficient at hitting through the middle.

And off the cuff, I think Duncan would kill if he went in for the Lauist approach. Greene, on the other hand, seems to be one of those hitters who may not necessarily benefit by the same. I’m a big believer in Lauist hitting, but I’m also a big believer in the uniqueness of each hitter and what suits them best. Often, what suits a hitter best, is what they believe suits them them best, and not what I or anyone else believes.

I would never have a problem with a hitter, for instance, saying, “Naw, I don’t like that thinking, or that approach, or that way execution.”

When we bloggers suppose what we would do or not do in the various GMs, coaching, players’ respective circumstance, I, at one point last season, would’ve liked to instruct a hitter like Duncan. Of course, I’m no pro, but fans often think this way and I’m no different. I see in Duncan a potential to hit far better and also a man that many have totally misread as far as his committment to the game and his team.

Stepping out of my rah-rah and back to your comment, I like your insistance on more vision testing. It can’t hurt, right? Sometimes people “cheat” on focusing on objects without any clue they are doing so. That’s very common.

Whether this is Greene’s intention, I have no clue. He may simply be hitting in what he perceives as his most productive manner, and he has obviously done quite well so far.

But to nitpick and guesstimate, which is safe and easy when it’s not my tail in the batters’ box, I would make one simple suggestion to start, and it’s not strategic, as in the way I’ve prefaced this commment.

What may be preventing a more efficient swing is Greene’s hands, or more specifically, the movement of same. In the first clip, overall, we see a double movement in Greene’s hands, the first one, down from their high original position. The second portion of that movement is where the potential hindrance lies.

In the first and last swings of the first clip, we see that the secondary motion of Greene’s hands is back, which is quite necessary for his “loading.” On his first swing, Greene tops a foul ball, overly pulled, but utilizing what I believe is a good swing which he seems comfortable with. In the last swing, of course, he rips the ball.

But the second, third, and fourth swings reveal how his secondary hand motion is not back, but rather, down, what I believe is natural, but flawed reaction to pitch location. If there is no backward motion on these swings, the loadup will not lead to an effective launch. The “double-dip” is a problem, whereas the inititial dip and backward movement (part of the loadup) is not.

On the second swing, actually, Greene’s hands are somewhere between double-dip and backward movement, but you can see how this results in an elbow’s bent, catch-up, wristing type of cut, on which finds the power of the launch of his forward hip dimished, should he make contact. Bent elbows just doesn’t produce a whole lot of drives.

Dropping the hands “two flights” creates a scenario in which catching up to anything is nearly impossible. The most a hitter can hope for in this scenario is to “inside-out” a swing to the opposite field.

Another effect the dropping of the hands has is that the lower half of the body often drops right along with them (swings #3 and #4). There goes any sort of explosive launch with the front side hip.

A bad effect of not catching up to pitches over a period of time leads to opening up sooner and sooner, which may or may not be occurring with Greene, but has in his first four swings.

So the mystery of Greene looking every bit capable of hitting heat may be solved in that indeed, he shows every indication that he can. But … when his hands drop down in two distinct movements instead of down and back, in my opinion, he is simply not allowing himself to take a position that allows him to launch effectively.

As for opening up too soon, head out, lack of extentsion, those mechanical factors, I believe, are a by-product of that hands not reaching back, and those issues will most likely take care of themselves as the hand movement is adjusted.

And I hate to put any potential book on a Cardinal, being a fan, but low and slow is probably going to make Greene drop those hands twice, and if dropping his lower half along with the hands is his tendency, pitchers with probably work him up and in, low and away, basic, but effective. In this way, I would guess that pitchers will not fear any low mistake pitches, as it is doubtful that even should Greene make contact, the early opening, off-timing, bent elbow, result will be nothing to fear. The catcher, on the other hand, may have to stay alert, as Greene may end up accidentally kicking him with his rear foot as well.

An up and inside mistake pitch that catches too much of the plate is one pitch I see Greene pounding, but one which will become more rare as he reaches each new and higher level of competition. Such a pitch sends his hands back more then down, and in plenty of time to put all the load and launch factors in an efficient position for execution.

What’s fun about this is how easy it is to be wrong, and I realize that. But if I were directing this hitter, a bit of cage time might tell the tale, or, deepen the mystery.

As for Greene’s swings, does he look similar to Duncan? Dunc to me is just a hacker, he seems to swing for a fastball on every pitch. A Duncanesque player with less power but able to play 2B or SS wouldn’t be half bad, especially as your off the bench backup.

I think he’ll end up as a reliever.

Oh, how easy to pick on every one else’s skills, but believe me, I do so with the best of intentions. I have a ton of respect for these players and how difficult a job they have.

And, before I sign off on today’s fun, that vimeo deal was perfect.

Thanks for all the extra attention today, TRB, and Erik.

Without yet having seen the video, I would surmise from your report that Greene is either guessing fast ball all the time because his bat speed is not as good as we think, or, more likely, he is setting up fastball all the time (in his hitting zone) and pressuring the pitcher to either hit his spot or get hit.

These clues lead me to believe the aforementioned:
–always out in front
–doesn’t do much with the hangers
–rarely behind on fastballs

I’ll hazard a guess that many of his “weak, half regretful” swings come with one strike.

And you really called it on the eye vision thing. I was sooo close to listing that previously, but decided not to because I was assuming any professional organization would be on top of that. Maybe not?

So if he’s setting up fast ball only takes reading the pitch out as a factor because he has pre-read. We just don’t know what he’s seeing nor what he’s thinking. I think you broke it down to the point where you alluded to that.

Something’s not adding up; that’s for sure. And it sounds as if Greene could/should be even better at the plate. I’m sure he’s working his tail toward that end.

From what you’ve said so far, however, he may about to hit a wall, or already has, in the AFL, where there’s a steady stream of good pitchers without a stat-padder in the bunch. The ML hurlers with book him quick on the type of drawbacks you describe. I hope he improves. I’m going to check those videos.

Thanks again.