These days, we’re spoiled for statistical information on our favorite big league players, and it’s trickled down to the minors as well. But we just don’t see a lot of quantitative analysis on college players around the ‘net. It’s a shame, too, because when hearing name after name being called on draft day, there’s little we know about the players who are being called and how they truly performed against their peers. Sure, the top players get some ink, but after the first couple of rounds we’re left with some superficial college stats that may look good on the surface but tell us nothing about the context they were in.

Thankfully, there are some hard workers out there like Mike Rogers, who have taken the time to apply some of the advanced metrics to the college game to give us more information on some of these draft picks out of the D-I schools. He’s also been kind enough to share with me his findings. Mike has used Tango’s wOBA (weighted on-base average) for players, as well as speed scores, isolated power, walk rates, strikeout rates and the like to find some of the top college performers in the draft. He’s even applied things like strength of schedule, average conference stats and park factors for context.

Now, I recommend reading the scouting reports first. Tools trump performance in evaluating amateurs. Just because someone is a good college baseball player doesn’t guarantee success at the major league level. But this does tell us more about what these players have done, and one thing we know, the Cardinals highly value track record in many ways.

I don’t want to take up too much time explaining how Mike evaluates players, but you can read more at an article he and Myron Logan penned at Baseball Analysts. He has six tiers of scores in his system: Anything over 122 is elite, anything over 102-121 is considered to be very good, 82-101 as “good”, 61-81 as average/above-average, 41-60 as below-average, 21 or worse is just plain bad.

Speed scores are scaled down and to eyeball it, keep this in mind: -5 is terrible, 0 is bad, 5 is average, 10 is good, 15 is great, 20+ is flat-out burner.

Let’s look at the players the Cardinals drafted early and how rate statistically.

Robert Stock 2008 2009
Park-adjusted wOBA .381 .377
Park-adjusted ISO .123 .212
Speed Score 1.27 5.47
BB% 10.5% 13.7%
K% 6.2% 14.3%
Score 81.90 92.68

After making adjustments, Stock doesn’t look like someone who has to convert to pitching permanently, especially not for a 19-year old. Stock has shown a pretty good eye at the plate. Comparing ’09 with ’08, it’s obvious Stock was willing to trade contact for power, and that caused him to get out of sorts. He hit .299 in ’08, .236 this past year. To me it sounds like a kid who is trying to develop an identity at the plate after not quite delivering on the hype right away. There are plenty of positives here to cause me to believe he can still be a fine backstop, and there is still plan B should he falter.

Ryan Jackson 2008 2009
Park-adjusted wOBA .383 .322
Park-adjusted ISO .133 .127
Speed Score 5.5 8.53
BB% 8% 14.3%
K% 8.7% 12.1%
Score 79.18 80.35

Defense is Jackson’s thing, as scouts say his glove would play in the big leagues right now. We know the bat is sketchy at best. Jackson actually hit fairly well in 2008 in the batting average department, but his most recent season rates higher in Mike’s system due to the increased walk rate. If he can continue to control the strike-zone, draw a half-decent amount of walks while playing top notch defense, then you got a pretty nice 5th round pick. Neither Jackson or Stock really wow with the numbers, but both get some bonus points from me for playing tough positions, and playing them well.

Kyle Conley 2008 2009
Park-adjusted wOBA .546 .434
Park-adjusted ISO .471 .333
Speed Score 6.45 3.69
BB% 12.6% 13.9%
K% 19.3% 27.4%
Score 150.17 97.90

Reading the scouting reports, Conley sounds Chris Duncan-esque. Big, tall hitter with pull power, weak contact and defensive skills. He took a step back this year, especially in the strikeout department, and his final rating he went from great to good. Conley tried to slim down and change his approach to an “all-fields” approach, maybe he should retrace his steps.

Jason Stidham 2008 2009
Park-adjusted wOBA .407 .457
Park-adjusted ISO .198 .271
Speed Score 4.42 3.89
BB% 13.6% 16.1%
K% 9.5% 13.0%
Score 102.49 116.19

Stidham seems to be Dan Descalso-like, only with less contact and more power. Good walk rate and he definitely was one of the best college performers this year. He offers little in the way of speed and while he was drafted as a shortstop, second-base seems inevitable. Stidham was abysmal in the Cape Cod League until the playoffs, so there is the concern he’s more of a “ping” hitter, but he sounds like an interesting sleeper. The last time the Cardinals took an elite FSU performer was Shane Robinson, and say what you will about Robinson, he made the big leagues.

I like the hitters the Cardinals drafted early for the most part. You can argue that they should have drafted so-and-so over some of these players, but each player brings some interesting abilities. I think Conley and Stidham are interesting sleepers who could either top out AA or surprise. Getting a role player in the 7th and 8th round is a major success, so it’s not like they have to put on a show. Stock is a bit of a wild card, and despite Jackson’s offensive foibles I love what I hear about his defense and the Cardinals could use some depth at SS.

Bear in mind this statistical break-down is more about what the player has done then what they will do, but hopefully it gives you more context as to how these players performed. Hopefully their success in Division I carries over.

11 Responses to “Getting to know the 09 Draft Class: Hitters”
  1. cdb says:

    Has any work been done looking at how these normalized stats (wOBA) predict success from college to the majors? Is there enough statistical data to go back 10 years into the college scorebooks and see whether some of these higher level stats can actually predict (of course not accounting for injury, blocked advancement, etc) whether player A is more likely to make it to the show? I love the concept of higher level stats, but until I see that they are more predictive than traditional stats, I don’t really pay attention to them.

  2. fewgoodcards says:

    i don’t really know where to put this, but i watched the draft recap video of the cardinals over at baseballwebtv.com, and it sounds like allan simpson was really impressed with the cardinals draft. he went as far as to say that every person the cardinals picked in the first 5 rounds has been mentioned as a first round talent at some point in their careers (sandwich round for bittle). obviously everyone loves the miller pick, but he is also very high on stock. he pointed out what we all know, kelly has a huge arm, and said that jackson would have been a first round pick this year if he hit like last year and was a steal in round 5.

  3. Mike R says:

    Erik, I should’ve specified that my weightings for my score have changed slightly since that article. And until I flesh out the 2009 numbers with full conferences not just draft-eligible players, they differ a bit in terms of “tiers” from my 2008 and 2007 numbers.

    2009 tiers:

    149.85 Elite
    128.01 Very good
    106.16 Good
    84.32 Average
    62.48 Below-Average
    40.63 Bad
    18.79 Terrible

    For 2008 or earlier, the tiers are:

    150.08 Elite
    124.69 Very Good
    99.31 Good/above-average
    73.93 Average
    48.55 Below-Average
    23.16 Bad
    -2.22 Terrible

    These scores are different for a couple of reasons: My 2008 and 2009 numbers incorporate Runs Above Average into the score; so I have about 20 hitters above the 150 plateau (including Conley’s 2008). The other reason is that my 2008 and 2009 numbers don’t seclude bad hitters. I’m using every player in each of the conferences I’ve looked at that accumulate more then 75 plate appearances. Like I said, my 2009 numbers are solely guys that I had read about/found to be interesting statistically. So generally, the 2009 numbers are just the “good” college players and not some of the kids with 100 PA’s and posting wOBA’s in the 0.200′s.

  4. Mike R says:

    cdb: Fair question/concerns. Lincoln Hamilton has run some correlations over at Project Prospect as he’s got a system that’s like mine, only a bit more advanced with Positional Adjustments, and he uses “replacement level” player and I don’t (I’m not comfortable with that concept 100%).

    Now, I don’t take those correlations as fact because he’s got selection bias in his favor; he’s using only the top 50 college bats drafted in each draft he looked at. I feel that won’t give an accurate sample. That said, I would guess that a players BB% and K% would correlate somewhere in the .5-.6 range. I would say higher, but there are college hitters that are routinely walked and most college websites don’t give Intentional BB’s and unintentional BB’s in separate categories. So, if a player has a good reputation and gets off to a scorching start in the first two weeks of the season, the next 2-3 series can over inflate his BB% through intentional walks or other teams just not pitching to him (Guys like Grant Green of USC and Pedro Alvarez have been noted as being continually pitched around in their junior years).

    My plan is to add more numbers this summer and get back to somewhere like 2000 or 2001 — I feel that’d give me a data base of about 10,000 players (I get about 1000 players per year from all of the conferences I look at which are SEC, ACC, Big East, Big West, Big 12, Big Ten, Pac 10, Mountain West, Conference USA, and I just added the 2008 numbers for the Sun Belt and will also be adding in the WAC and the MAC for the 2009, 08, and 07 years as well), with which to run correlations and try to figure out why someone who appeared to be a great hitter in college flopped in the majors and/or never even made it, or vice-versa.

    I also am probably going to be looking for some help in doing all of this as this gets kind of mind-numbing after a bit, so anyone willing to help in their spare time, drop me a line at mikerogers04@gmail.com.

  5. fewgoodcards says:

    according to Derrick Goold and stlcardinals.com, 3rd rounder Joe Kelly has officially signed. i assume he is on his way to Batavia.

  6. Alex says:

    To put these numbers in context, it might be nice to see them in terms of percentiles (eg, “top 5% of all drafted players” rather than “elite”)

  7. tom s. says:

    mike r., erik, or fgc, how would you compare ryan jackson to brendan ryan? are we talking the same order of talent here? are we talking somebody who has more promise to learn to hit at a ML-level? less? i’ve heard the adam everett comp before, but i wanted to look at an example closer to home.

    maybe it’s a little unfair, since brendan seems to be a moving target in terms of his level of big league talent, but there it is.

    i would say tyler greene too as a good glove, question mark bat, but the skill sets on offense are so different — low power, high walk rate, with the converse for tyler.

    • fewgoodcards says:

      jackson doesn’t have ryan’s speed, and i actually said in the draft thread we had on here when the pick was made that jackson is a slower version of brendan ryan. i think jackson could have a little more extra base pop than ryan as he fills out, but you still aren’t talking much.

      as you mentioned tyler greene is a completely different animal. both jackson and ryan are very strong contact hitters, and contact is really the only thing keeping greene from being a star. he has great power and speed and is a future 20/20 man at short if he can make enough contact.

  8. cariocacardinal says:

    what exactly is the “speed score”? It seems to vary widely for the same player from year to year.

  9. Mike R says:

    Alex — I will take the percentiles into consideration, for sure.

    Tom S — I agree with fewgoodcards that Jackson is a bit slower Ryan.

    cariocacardinal — Speed score is just a generic speed score. What I use is the formula <a href=http://www.projectprospect.com/article/2008/03/14/prospect-speed-analysisfrom this article. It’s a pretty generic speed score. The components are stolen bases attempted per time reaching first base, SB%, CS%, triples per at-bat, grounded into double plays per at-bat. Obviously it’s not a perfect number and things like GIDP can fluctuate given who’s hitting in front of you. It also operates on the assumption that you wouldn’t be attempting to steal unless you’re a good base runner, so it’s more of a baserunning stat then it is a “speed” stat.

    That said, it doesn’t get a lot of weight in my rankings. I get the raw numbers and divide those by 2.5, and that gives me a range from, roughly, -5 through 25. When I use it in my “score,” it gets divided by 3, so it’s got little weight in my numbers as some guys — especially in the lesser conferences like the Mountain West — have outrageous raw speed scores.

  10. [...] Manning of Future Redbirds breaks down the hitters in the Cardinals draft class using statistical [...]

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