Comments on: In-depth Scouting Report of Shelby Miller

By: chadd bednarz

chadd bednarz — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 17:28:09 +0000

we played against him in the regional quarter finals in 2009 and he was throwing about 93-96 but he had pretty good command with him fastball but his curve was lacking but we never saw an attempt at a change up.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 23:40:10 +0000

That is true but he’s also askingmore than the Cardinals are typically willing to pay.

By: tom s.

tom s. — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 19:28:25 +0000

He pretty much jumped up and down and said he wants to be a cardinal and doesn’t want to go to college. That’s a good sign.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 19:15:36 +0000

Is there new news where it says he will probably be signed?

By: Gregatron

Gregatron — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 15:44:42 +0000

I’m just glad to see this kid will likely be signed.

By: bigchieftootiemontana

bigchieftootiemontana — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 03:25:52 +0000

Did you guys see and discuss this video interview with Papa Dunc ?

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/newsstand/discussion/pd_hall_of_a_coach_cardinals_dave_duncan_talks_cy_success_and_cooperstown_c/

For me it humanized Dave Duncan and gives me the impression that unless Shelby Miller struggles in a big way Duncan will not be trying to change him. Duncan gives the impression in the video that he works with what stuff the pitchers have.

By: tom s.

tom s. — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 21:16:42 +0000

BJM — I replied to you on VEB, but the conversation seems to be over here.

It seems like you’re generalizing the catastrophe that was the anthony reyes experiment to general behavior by dave duncan. I think dave is open to criticism on the reyes front, but i don’t think it’s fair to say he’d just do the same thing to miller.

for one, plenty of good K pitchers on the cards can throw a 4-seam: motte and perez throw gas. carp, waino, and welly all have a non-pitch-to-contact-repetoire.

and i think it’s overblown to say that duncan can’t develop 3-4-5 guys. maybe the system can’t, but what pitchers has he failed with, other than reyes? is it duncan’s fault that ottavino is stuck in AAA? the real problem with our 3-4-5 guys is that they just haven’t reached the majors and those who have have not had the talent to sustain their performance.

the realistic starting pitching prospects who have come up in past years are: wainwright and reyes. He’s 1-1 with those two. He’s worked a fair amount with Boggs, who is showing some life. but the other prospect names making spot starts with the rotation had pretty minimal contact with duncan: keisler, narveson, etc. I wouldn’t want to hang those guys on duncan.

btw, i remember hearing that miller’s fastball has some natural sink to it already. i wouldn’t be sad to have miller introduce a sinker to his repetoire. i’ll be just as annoyed as you if we find that he’s not allowed to throw a four-seam, but i think that fear is overblown.

By: BigJawnMize

BigJawnMize — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 20:25:36 +0000

JC-

Agreed.

My main arguement against both of them is that they have done a poor job of developing young depth. Duncan doesn’t develop young 3, 4, or 5 type starters and I think Tony mishandles young role players–currently Ryan, Greene 2, Shuemaker, and even Duncan. If you want to keep Pujols you have the young or just above average players filling 20 of the 25 roster spots. The style procurement/player devolopment may not be capable of contending every year…but when we get lucky and have a handful of very talented cheaper younguns we will chase titles.

By: JC

JC — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 20:03:23 +0000

BigJawnMize – We can agree to disagree! I hope we keep TLR and Duncan around. They do the team much more good than bad. I also think when Duncan has a guy that has superior talents and can be a frontline pitcher he works with the guys best pitches and then teaches them other elements to improve their overall skills and knowledge of pitching. Not saying he handles every pitcher perfectly but if they don’t have dominating stuff then usually they need to pitch to keep the ball in the park.

By: BigJawnMize

BigJawnMize — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 19:47:43 +0000

I think generally Duncan tries to mold pitcher to an image of he thinks they should be. Sometimes this works–there are plenty of pitchers that need to be molded into something–Welleymeyer for example. But there are a lot of pitchers who’s basic skill set just does not compute with Duncan–Reyes. His out pitch was a change-up. Instead of guidance on how to be effective with the arsenal that Reyes had duncan tried to change him into something he wasn’t–the sinker/slider pitcher. And when he couldn’t get a feal for a sinker discredited him so much that all we could get was a reliver that we released. Walters I fear will sufer the same fate, as he actually looks like e would prefer to pitch a little backwards by locating a lot of those change-ups to ease the pressure on his mediocre fastball.

Duncan, if he is around (I doubt it), will make Miller locate that fastball down in the zone. It is just that might not be the best strategy given his skill set. That thing looked good enough that he will really be able to elevate it setting up that breaking pitch.

What has been the criticism of Duncan his whole career–not developing young pitchers. The counter arguments people make in his defense are star type players–Ankiel the pitcher and Wainwright. He isn’t developoing many of those because those are rare talents and he ain’t developing any young back of the rotation starters because if they don’t come up as the sinker/slider style pitcher he doesn’t know what to do with them.

I hope he and Tony are gone soon. The team will go through a transition, but it will be a lot better than hearing these guy bicker about player development/procurement.