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	<title>Comments on: The Day the Music Died</title>
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	<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2009/07/24/day-music-died/</link>
	<description>Baseball&#039;s Future in the Gateway City</description>
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		<title>By: Paper Lions</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2009/07/24/day-music-died/comment-page-1/#comment-11073</link>
		<dc:creator>Paper Lions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 14:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=3831#comment-11073</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, because 1 day is sufficient to evaluate this deal.  This deal will never look better than it does today, unless the Cardinals win the WS and Holliday is a significant contributor.

I agree that many of us (myself included), probably over value prospects, but the best way to add a difference maker to your team is through the draft...they are cheaper and stick around longer.  Every stud once was a prospect and many were called over-rated and traded for rental/peanuts (you don&#039;t think Atlanta would love to have Wainright and all the guys they gave up for Tex instead of the time they got from JD and Tex?).  We just don&#039;t want to give one of those away for a 1-2% increase in odds of winning the WS in one year, when keeping that player possibly could increase the odds of winning a WS by more than that for 5-6 years.

Plus...it just pains me that the Cards gave up way more for 2 months of Holliday than the A&#039;s gave up for to get him.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, because 1 day is sufficient to evaluate this deal.  This deal will never look better than it does today, unless the Cardinals win the WS and Holliday is a significant contributor.</p>
<p>I agree that many of us (myself included), probably over value prospects, but the best way to add a difference maker to your team is through the draft&#8230;they are cheaper and stick around longer.  Every stud once was a prospect and many were called over-rated and traded for rental/peanuts (you don&#8217;t think Atlanta would love to have Wainright and all the guys they gave up for Tex instead of the time they got from JD and Tex?).  We just don&#8217;t want to give one of those away for a 1-2% increase in odds of winning the WS in one year, when keeping that player possibly could increase the odds of winning a WS by more than that for 5-6 years.</p>
<p>Plus&#8230;it just pains me that the Cards gave up way more for 2 months of Holliday than the A&#8217;s gave up for to get him.</p>
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		<title>By: Ghost of Daric</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2009/07/24/day-music-died/comment-page-1/#comment-11050</link>
		<dc:creator>Ghost of Daric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 01:50:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=3831#comment-11050</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Meanwhile, Holliday gets 3 hits to help beat one of the better teams in the NL on the road.  Meanwhile, Wallace is still waiting for his chance at his first major league hit and Mortensen is....well....doing what?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meanwhile, Holliday gets 3 hits to help beat one of the better teams in the NL on the road.  Meanwhile, Wallace is still waiting for his chance at his first major league hit and Mortensen is&#8230;.well&#8230;.doing what?</p>
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		<title>By: fpslackers</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2009/07/24/day-music-died/comment-page-1/#comment-11029</link>
		<dc:creator>fpslackers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 22:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=3831#comment-11029</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[UB44, we shall see what happens.  I understand your points with Holliday, I was only using what Boras&#039; argument will be this offseason when he&#039;s trying to land Holliday a massive contract.  You can be sure Boras will want to test out free agency, though, and the Cards may not want to wait around that long.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>UB44, we shall see what happens.  I understand your points with Holliday, I was only using what Boras&#8217; argument will be this offseason when he&#8217;s trying to land Holliday a massive contract.  You can be sure Boras will want to test out free agency, though, and the Cards may not want to wait around that long.</p>
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		<title>By: UncleBuck44</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2009/07/24/day-music-died/comment-page-1/#comment-11026</link>
		<dc:creator>UncleBuck44</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 22:14:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=3831#comment-11026</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[fpslackers, Holliday isn&#039;t in Colorado anymore.  He&#039;s not the hitter that got 13.5 million in arbitration.  He was a .320, 30-35 HR hitter then.  He&#039;s now a .290, 20-25 HR hitter that currently has an .832 OPS.  Not even Brian Cashman would throw 18-20 million at him.  He&#039;s worth about 14-15 million a year tops.  I thought he would have gotten Teixeira money if he stayed in Colorado and then became a free agent.  But it&#039;s obvious that his big numbers are a product of Coors Field.  He&#039;s Larry Walker.  

As for Pujols, he has to know Bill DeWitt doesn&#039;t have a YES Network feeding him 50 million a year or whatever it was.  He has to know that if he wants an A-Rod contract, his time in St. Louis will soon be like A-Rod&#039;s in Texas.  8 years, 180 million is 22.5 million a year, AKA enough.  
And where will he get A-Rod money from?  I doubt he&#039;ll want to DH in New York and not many teams have A-Rod money.

As for Shelby Miller, that is what I said, he&#039;d be up at the end of Holliday&#039;s contract.  And like you said, the money is there for the short term.  We need to be worried about the long term.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fpslackers, Holliday isn&#8217;t in Colorado anymore.  He&#8217;s not the hitter that got 13.5 million in arbitration.  He was a .320, 30-35 HR hitter then.  He&#8217;s now a .290, 20-25 HR hitter that currently has an .832 OPS.  Not even Brian Cashman would throw 18-20 million at him.  He&#8217;s worth about 14-15 million a year tops.  I thought he would have gotten Teixeira money if he stayed in Colorado and then became a free agent.  But it&#8217;s obvious that his big numbers are a product of Coors Field.  He&#8217;s Larry Walker.  </p>
<p>As for Pujols, he has to know Bill DeWitt doesn&#8217;t have a YES Network feeding him 50 million a year or whatever it was.  He has to know that if he wants an A-Rod contract, his time in St. Louis will soon be like A-Rod&#8217;s in Texas.  8 years, 180 million is 22.5 million a year, AKA enough.<br />
And where will he get A-Rod money from?  I doubt he&#8217;ll want to DH in New York and not many teams have A-Rod money.</p>
<p>As for Shelby Miller, that is what I said, he&#8217;d be up at the end of Holliday&#8217;s contract.  And like you said, the money is there for the short term.  We need to be worried about the long term.</p>
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		<title>By: erik</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2009/07/24/day-music-died/comment-page-1/#comment-11015</link>
		<dc:creator>erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 21:05:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=3831#comment-11015</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mortensen is better than all of those names you mentioned, IMO. I have him up their with Jaime Garcia. Lynn may not be that far behind.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mortensen is better than all of those names you mentioned, IMO. I have him up their with Jaime Garcia. Lynn may not be that far behind.</p>
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		<title>By: fpslackers</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2009/07/24/day-music-died/comment-page-1/#comment-11006</link>
		<dc:creator>fpslackers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 20:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=3831#comment-11006</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[UB44, Holliday is currently making $13.5 mil this year.  You can bet with Boras as his agent he will get at least $15 mil/year.  Why $15 mil/year would be &quot;a bargain for a .300 hitter who averages around 30 HR a year, is an above average OF, and is entering his prime&quot;!  Not to mention he steals bases too.  I&#039;d use Teixeira&#039;s deal with the Yankees as a good reference.  He probably won&#039;t get that much but you have to think he&#039;ll get somewhere close.  

Pujols is a team player and wants the front office to upgrade the team and I could see him giving us a little discount.  However, he is also a very proud man and the best player in baseball.  He will certainly want more than Teixeira&#039;s $180mil/8 years.  Something closer to A-Rod&#039;s $275mil/10 years would probably be a little more accurate.  

You are optimistic on our pitching prospects and I agree I&#039;m very high on Garcia, who hopefully will come back with good stuff after surgery, but Miller is the only one who probably has ace potential and he&#039;s likely around 4 years away from the majors.  If we lock up Holliday for 5 years, there might be a couple years where we have a very bleak rotation once Carp&#039;s contract ends.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>UB44, Holliday is currently making $13.5 mil this year.  You can bet with Boras as his agent he will get at least $15 mil/year.  Why $15 mil/year would be &#8220;a bargain for a .300 hitter who averages around 30 HR a year, is an above average OF, and is entering his prime&#8221;!  Not to mention he steals bases too.  I&#8217;d use Teixeira&#8217;s deal with the Yankees as a good reference.  He probably won&#8217;t get that much but you have to think he&#8217;ll get somewhere close.  </p>
<p>Pujols is a team player and wants the front office to upgrade the team and I could see him giving us a little discount.  However, he is also a very proud man and the best player in baseball.  He will certainly want more than Teixeira&#8217;s $180mil/8 years.  Something closer to A-Rod&#8217;s $275mil/10 years would probably be a little more accurate.  </p>
<p>You are optimistic on our pitching prospects and I agree I&#8217;m very high on Garcia, who hopefully will come back with good stuff after surgery, but Miller is the only one who probably has ace potential and he&#8217;s likely around 4 years away from the majors.  If we lock up Holliday for 5 years, there might be a couple years where we have a very bleak rotation once Carp&#8217;s contract ends.</p>
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		<title>By: Eugene Tierney</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2009/07/24/day-music-died/comment-page-1/#comment-11004</link>
		<dc:creator>Eugene Tierney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 19:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=3831#comment-11004</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My feeling is this move was made to make Tony and Dunc happy after trading Lil&#039; Dunc (if the rumors were true about them threatening to quit).  

Up to this point, I was happy with most of Mo&#039;s moves; now I&#039;m not sure.  

I don&#039;t think Holliday will resign - he could cost the Cardinals an opportunity to lock up Pujols.  We already have something like $40MM tied up in the rotation when Albert hits free agency.  If we have to add another $15MM for Holliday, there is no way we can keep Albert and still have a full 25-man roster.

I also don&#039;t think Holliday is the answer for the team.  He&#039;s better than Ankiel, but I haven&#039;t been impressed since he left Colorado.

The cost is also too high - Wallace would most-likely contributed next year, as would Mort.  Now, we may need to get someone for 3B.  I would have preferred having Wallace there, re-signing DeRosa for second, and moving Schu back to the outfield.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My feeling is this move was made to make Tony and Dunc happy after trading Lil&#8217; Dunc (if the rumors were true about them threatening to quit).  </p>
<p>Up to this point, I was happy with most of Mo&#8217;s moves; now I&#8217;m not sure.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think Holliday will resign &#8211; he could cost the Cardinals an opportunity to lock up Pujols.  We already have something like $40MM tied up in the rotation when Albert hits free agency.  If we have to add another $15MM for Holliday, there is no way we can keep Albert and still have a full 25-man roster.</p>
<p>I also don&#8217;t think Holliday is the answer for the team.  He&#8217;s better than Ankiel, but I haven&#8217;t been impressed since he left Colorado.</p>
<p>The cost is also too high &#8211; Wallace would most-likely contributed next year, as would Mort.  Now, we may need to get someone for 3B.  I would have preferred having Wallace there, re-signing DeRosa for second, and moving Schu back to the outfield.</p>
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		<title>By: lassie01</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2009/07/24/day-music-died/comment-page-1/#comment-11003</link>
		<dc:creator>lassie01</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 19:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=3831#comment-11003</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My  two cents:

A very good friend of mine works in Minor League Baseball and knows a few scouts.  We both grew up Cardinals fans (he doesn&#039;t work for a Cardinals affiliate) and so its nice that we can talk shop when I get to see him.  About a month or so ago I asked him if he had heard anything on any Cardinals prospects i.e. whether or not the Cardinals where overvaluing them as was the rumor at the time.

He basically told me that the Cardinals have been burned a couple times in recent years with prospects that at one point had faily high trade values but lost most if not all once they got into the upper minors (read: Bryan Anderson).  He said that there were 4 or 5 guys that they were very torn about because they felt like they were headed down the same road (fairly high now, questionable in the future).

I didn&#039;t put too much stock into it (because I, too, have an biased love for Cardinal prospects) but since then 3 of the 5 guys he mentioned have been traded.  Take it with a grain of salt, this guy is no where near high up enough to have any real inside information, he just bs&#039;s with other teams personnel from time to time, I just thought it was interesting that 3 of the players he had heard the Cardinals were a little concerned about are now gone.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My  two cents:</p>
<p>A very good friend of mine works in Minor League Baseball and knows a few scouts.  We both grew up Cardinals fans (he doesn&#8217;t work for a Cardinals affiliate) and so its nice that we can talk shop when I get to see him.  About a month or so ago I asked him if he had heard anything on any Cardinals prospects i.e. whether or not the Cardinals where overvaluing them as was the rumor at the time.</p>
<p>He basically told me that the Cardinals have been burned a couple times in recent years with prospects that at one point had faily high trade values but lost most if not all once they got into the upper minors (read: Bryan Anderson).  He said that there were 4 or 5 guys that they were very torn about because they felt like they were headed down the same road (fairly high now, questionable in the future).</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t put too much stock into it (because I, too, have an biased love for Cardinal prospects) but since then 3 of the 5 guys he mentioned have been traded.  Take it with a grain of salt, this guy is no where near high up enough to have any real inside information, he just bs&#8217;s with other teams personnel from time to time, I just thought it was interesting that 3 of the players he had heard the Cardinals were a little concerned about are now gone.</p>
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		<title>By: Ghost of Daric</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2009/07/24/day-music-died/comment-page-1/#comment-11002</link>
		<dc:creator>Ghost of Daric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 19:44:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=3831#comment-11002</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Upset about Mortensen?  Really?  If that much upset, just switch his uniform with Boggs or Todd or Walters or Hawksworth or Ottavino or Kopp.  Can&#039;t tell them apart.  There are a dime a dozen of college RHPs in the org.  Kind of glad they held on to Lynn and Hearne for what it&#039;s worth.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Upset about Mortensen?  Really?  If that much upset, just switch his uniform with Boggs or Todd or Walters or Hawksworth or Ottavino or Kopp.  Can&#8217;t tell them apart.  There are a dime a dozen of college RHPs in the org.  Kind of glad they held on to Lynn and Hearne for what it&#8217;s worth.</p>
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		<title>By: RedC</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2009/07/24/day-music-died/comment-page-1/#comment-11001</link>
		<dc:creator>RedC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 19:40:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=3831#comment-11001</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Erik--

Chin up! Think of this as a college team. Every four years there&#039;s a new set of faces. The Cards only had Wallace for a year. Think of him as a freshman who goes pro. There will be another prospect to taking his sunny place in the minors soon. As long as Luhnow keeps doing what he&#039;s doing the system will be fine.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erik&#8211;</p>
<p>Chin up! Think of this as a college team. Every four years there&#8217;s a new set of faces. The Cards only had Wallace for a year. Think of him as a freshman who goes pro. There will be another prospect to taking his sunny place in the minors soon. As long as Luhnow keeps doing what he&#8217;s doing the system will be fine.</p>
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