On this day in 1975, Edgar Renteria was born. Twenty-three years later, Walt Jocketty would acquire him for 3 Cardinals minor league players. Those 3 would be Braden Looper, Pablo Ozuna and Armando Almanza. Looper would become a serviceable reliever, Ozuna never amounted to much as a utility player and Almanza had only a few years as an average reliever for Florida.
These types of deals simply don’t happen anymore in today’s baseball landscape. The Marlins were in the midst of one of their many firesales, something the Pirates seem to be doing this year. However, you don’t see the Pirates trading 23 year old shortstops with power and an above average glove for 3 prospects. That’s why that while the Holliday trade may be a ‘Jocketty-special’, brilliant moves like the Renteria are few and far between.
- Nick Stavinoha was 2-for-4 with a double.
- David Freese was 1-for-3 with a double.
- Sugar Shane Robinson hit a Grand Slam, going 2-for-3 with 5 RBI and a stolen base.
- Mitchell Boggs had an awful outing. I’m not sure what went wrong but he gave up 7 ERs over 5 IP on 10 hits, 2 walks and 4 strikeouts. He gave up 2 HRs but neither were major RBI situations.
- Even after all that, Fernando Salas was still in a situation to take the loss in the game. He struck out 2, walked 1 and gave up 2 hits. That lead to 2 ERs over his inning.
- Royce Ring gave up a hit and struck out 1 in his inning.
- Charlie Manning’s inning saw a hit.
- Tyler Henley and Nick Derba both went 1-for-4 with 3-run HRs.
- Donovan Solano and Colt Sedbrook both were 2-for-3.
- Scott Gorgen picked up the win, going 6 innings giving up only 1 ER.
- Tyler Norrick let Arkansas back in the game by allowing 3 ERs while recording only 1 out.
- Francisco Samuel got the next 2 outs.
- Eduardo Sanchez picked up his 5th save by walking 2 but striking out 3.
- Jose Garcia was 2-for-3.
- Osvaldo Morales went 2-for-4.
- Francisco Rivera’s 2 hits were a double and HR for 3 RBI.
- Tommy Pham was 3-phor-4 with a triple and homerun.
- Brian Broderick couldn’t get an out in the 5th inning. He gave up 6 ERs on 9 hits and a walk. He struck out 6.
- Blake King was strong for 2 innings, striking out 2 and giving up a hit.
- Brad Furnish’s inning saw a hit, a walk and a strikeout.
- Thomas Eager recorded the win with an inning of 1 run ball, walking 2.
- Adam Reifer got the save with a strikeout.
Quad Cities 11, Cedar Rapids 4
- D’Marcus Ingram was 2-for-2 with 3 RBI and 2 BBs, to go along with a stolen base.
- Jermaine Curtis went 2-for-5 with a double and a stolen base.
- Domnit Bolivar hit a double and Jarred Bogany hit a triple and stole home.
- Scott McGregor turned out a good game, going 7 innings and only yielding 3 runs (2 ER). He struck out 5, walked 2 and gave up 4 hits.
- David Carpenter finished things off with 1 run over 2 innings. 2 Hits, 1 BB and 2 Ks.
- Matthew Adams was 2-for-5.
- Everything else was a bunch of singles.
- Kyle Conley had a hit, a stolen base and an outfield assist at home.
- Justin Edwards struckout 6 over 5 innings. He walked 1, gave up 4 hits and 1 ER.
- Jesse Simpson gave up 2 ER and struckout 4 over 3 innings for the loss.
- Tyler Lavigne only got 2 outs but managed to give up 2 ERs on 2 BBs, 3 Hits and a strikeout.
- Tyler Leach recorded the last out.
Johnson City 7, Elizabethton 6 (Game 1)
- Ted Obregon Trail, Unsolved Mysteries Robert Stock and Jonathan Rodriguez all went 2-for-4.
- Corporal Kleininger Teran hit a double.
- Edgar Lara and Yunier Castillo (double) went 2-for-3.
- John Durham was roughed up and still got the win scattering 9 hits over 5 innings. 5 runs scored (4 ER) and he struck out 2, while walking 1.
- Jason Novak pitched an inning walking 2, giving up a run.
- Jose Rada picked up the save with a walk, a hit and a strikeout.
Johnson City 0, Elizabethton 7 (Game 2)
- We had 3 hits, one of which was a double by Joseph Hage.
- Randy Santos was all about the power of 4. 4 IP, 4 Hits, 4 ERs, 4 BBs and only 2 strikeouts.
- Kyle Heim was all about the power of 3. 3 IP, 4 Hits, 3 ERs, 2 BBs and 3 strikeouts.
Entries (RSS)
Was Boggs missing his location in the middle of the plate? The knock on his has always been a lack of control. Stuff is great but you need to know where its going.
I’m not sure why we have so many pitchers with control problems. We do seem to have a surplus.
How much of a prospect is Ingram? He has some serious speed and could probably be a good player if he can hit for contact. I would like to see a fellow Arkansan do well since Todd is gone and Rowlett got released…
Ingram isn’t likely to make the top 20 even after the farm system has been depleted.
I wonder if the door just opened for Hawk to take the 5th spot in the rotation. I wouldnt mind that. In fact, i think id prefer it.
Does Sanchez have anything left to prove in AA?
Boggs wasn’t as terrible as the numbers may suggest the strike zone was said to be bad tonight the wind were blowing out at 30-40 MPH on top of Spring Mobile Ballpark already being a hitters park, at one point it was gusting out at 50 MPH in the middle of the game which lead to power getting knocked out to a bank of lights, after the 20 min delay in the 5th Boggs had a HBP and 3 singles before getting out of the inning.
ive been on the gorgen bacndwagon for some time. good outing for him.
I gotta tell you they hve a great bullpen in Springfield, its reported that MO, came down from the skybox with this daugther to a seat right behind home plate to see Sanchez pitch. Samuel has looked alot better the last few days, Sanchez had a 2 inning save yesterday. I don’t t hink he has much left to prove but I think they may leave them there through to playoffs.
Kyle Heim is the brother of a good friend of mine. He is an athletic kid. Big guy for a lefty. I am really pulling for him to at least turn into a good lefty relief specialist. Any interest in interviewing him? I might be able to help get something set up.
Development and on the job training of high end GM
Cardinals are paying a huge price in developing a MLB caliber GM. The trades to date has costs us our Minor League depth and more importantly one can argue that Top player traded, 2 of top 5 and 3 of top 10 players traded are from cardinals minor league system.
It is obvious that Cardinals will have a hard time if not impossible time signing Holliday. Any trade for Holliday (that costs us the top minor league player changing hand and a near major league rady SP 3-5) should have been dependent on Holliday agreeing to a long term contract which is not the case. It is obovious that Pujols re-signing will take a 20 mil / year contract. Considering that and our lets say 100 million budget +/- 10%, how the hell we can pay Holliday more than 10-12 million / year.
Lets see:
Khalil Green (Two RH relievers)
DeRosa (Two high potential RH Relievers both at verge of major league – Perez & Todd, two of the top 10 young talents traded)
Holliday(top player traded this trading season in Wallace, a Major League near ready SP and a throw in)
Then consider what Phils gave away for CyYoung winner under reasonable contract for next 3 years.
I do hope our GM learns from these trades and develops into a top end GM. He is definitely not Jokkerty at this point even when utilizing a Jokerty approach in recent trades but at the same time not understanding the key consideration that is mid-long term value for the organization. Jokkerty traded talent for a difference maker that will sign an extention. For the load of talent we have traded we will end up with two complimentary first round draft picks. Simply Awful Performance to date.
Hope Cardinals get to World Series and bring a ring to Saint Louis. Else the above trades will go down as some of the worst trades in Saint Louis cardinals history.
Honestly I don’t think we gave up much for DeRosa and Holliday, Greene is another story. Our farm systems strength is relief pitching, we have Samuel, Sanchez and Reifer probably will end up better than Perez. Todd really didn’t have a place with the big club and may not have MLB talent. Holliday will help give us a better chance at a WS ring. Sure we gave up Wallace but Peterson is at best a 4th outfielder and Mortenson can be replaced. Granted we lost quite a few of our top guys but I think we have alot of guys in the low minors that have real potential probably more potential than what we gave up.
The key point is value. Both short term, and mid-long term value needs to be evaluated.
K. Greene trade for me is of no consequence since the RH relievers can be easily replacable.
Mid range RH releivers, yes we have a few and as stated above is of no significant value. But giving Perez, Todd both high end releivers is just too much for rent a year 35 year old player.
Wallace + a starting pitcher (near ready, next year he will be SP in MLB) for a half year – better bring us world series or cause re-signing of Pujols and Holliday.
Up to know our GM, was first timid (off season), then all out without strategic perspective.
I think thats the point without this addition of offense we didn’t really have a legit chance at the WS. The team was overachieving and just hanging in there like 07 and 08, now we have 2 veteran good offensive players and a renewed sense of excitement as a team. We also gave Albert what he wanted, he wanted the FO to show that they are serious about winning year in year out. Say what you want about cost controlled players I don’t t hink there would have been any chance Albert would resign if 3 years in a row the FO sat on there hands while the division slipped away. Everyone we lost can be replaced plus we have a lot better shot at the WS.
On top of that, the increased attendance since the aquisitions has shown Dewitt that if he spents money to make a put out a good product more people will come. Maybe that translates into signing draft picks over slot.
I think PointCenter might be exagerating on this a bit.
First off, you can compare jockety and Mo. And if you do, then you also have to bring up the bad jockety trades as part of the discussion. And after seeing the Rolen deal, maybe its jockety who might need a few lessons (just kidding).
But in all seriousness, who did the cards give up for Holliday and DeRossa? AFterall, you are supposed to trade minor league “depth” to improve your club.
Perez? I lost respect fot that guy at the start of the year. He had a chance to be the starting closer for the st. Louis cardinals-but puts off heal surgery because it would interfer with his wedding – says somthing about competitive fire.
Todd=Brad Thompson. Don’t beleive me? Look up how dominant Brad Thompson was in the minors. That kind of success with a slight lack of ability does not translate to ML dominance. Still some value, but not a top notch closer you are making him out to be.
Mortenson, I was sad to see him go. But again, he is a back of the rotation starter. The cards still have Garcia and Lynn, who I think have more potential then he did.
Also, they lost Wallace. Now if he could stick at third, the will have alot of value. But even the A’s are playing him at first some. He does not project alot of power, but will hit. You have a Saun Casey bat. Which would be great at third, but not quite as impressive and eaisier to replace at first.
Oh and I forgot to mention,
If its really the minor league depth you are worried about losing, not to worry since the cards will be getting back 3-possibly 4 first round picks if they lose DeRossa and Holliday to FA.
Another thread that shows how readers are more worried about minor league rankings than MLB winning.
Out of all the guys we lost, the two that hurt the most are Todd and Perez today. If Hawksworth has to go to the rotation to take Wellemeyer’s spot, we are thin out there in the pen from the right side. Perez and Todd together were clearly too much to cough up for the DeRosa. However, I’m sure JMo knows that but Tony screamed bloody murder that he wanted DeRosa now (forcing the GM to overpay)! Gee, you don’t suppose after Tony forced the GM into a bad deal on DeRosa that the GM retaliated by shipping out Tony’s adopted son (little Dunc)? No, that could have never happened.
Conditional trade for saving Holliday from Oakland + loosing millions of $ if Holliday stays in Oakland (just see his avg, HR, … while in oakland). That for me is high degree of leverage that our GM had.
Giving Wallace and then a middle of rotation SP for him then by bringing him to Saint Louis and its winning attitude team that will translate in millions of $ more for him is just way too much.
Dont get me wrong, getting a protective bat for Pujols is long overdew but we just gave up too much. Wallace should not have been included, just compare what Oakland gave for Holliday and compare it what we gave up and Oakland also had a year for him. If included then Holliday need to be signable on reasonable contract or at minimum we should have gotten a dependable reliever for our WS run.
We simply did not got any value.
On Derosa we jsut got hosed. I am not even sure that he will bring us any 1st round supplemental draft position with year he had in his previous club.
Look at what Phils had to give away for a CyYoung arm under reasonable contract for few years. Way less than we gave up for Holliday.
Hope our GM learns and develops as top end GM, if not owner need to get an experienced GM in place. Minor leagues need to be used for trades. But we need to get value no matter how good or how deep is our minor league overll or in certain position. We did not in these cases and We can not afford any more of this type of deals.
Hopefully, we can extend Pujols now that the clube has showed commitment for winning. The time for extending Pujols is now. A seven year 140 million $ contract replacing the existing two year contract should be offered and hopefully to be agreed by Pujols.
Everything you just wrote was pure 100 percent speculation that involved absolutely no fact. There is nothing to suggest that La Russa sceamed bloody murder for DeRosa. There’s nothing to suggest that Mozeliak thought it was a bad deal and to get back at La Russa he traded Chris Duncan.
As for the trades that brought Greene, DeRosa and Holliday going down as the worst in team history, that was pure drama queen stuff. Sheesh, Luke Gregorson, Mark Worrell, Jess Todd, Chris Perez, Brett Wallace, Shane Peterson and Clayton Mortensen: Which one of those guys is going to be a borderline Hall of Famer? Only one of those guys can even be considered a possible borderline All-Star.
You have to give to get. Holliday has been the best hitter in the bigs the last month or so. You don’t get that for free.
And evaluating trades using that silly value system, is nuts. It isn’t like we are trading one LF for another. Or one SP for another. If a team is set in the rotation, but can’t hit a lick, sometimes it might be smart to give up a little big more of your pitching than the hitter you are getting is worth. You have to fill that hole.
Ok pointcenter, thats the second time you have said the phils got a cy young pitcher with a good long term contract for nothing…and its just patently false…cliff lee has an option for next year, then he is a free agent, not the three years you are talking about…and while they didn’t give up as much as we did for holliday, it’s not like they give up a bunch of eddie degerman’s…we really needed a matt holliday, they didn’t really need a cliff lee(by the way, the phils now have 4 lefties in their starting rotation, they are like the anti-cardinals)
i’m fine with you thinking MO is a bad GM(though i disagree), and i’m fine we you thinking we gave up too much(maybe you’re right), but you are wrong about the phils and cliff lee…and you said it twice, so it needed to be corrected
Three points to the “Point (Center)”:
1. If the Cards don’t resign Holliday and/or Derosa, they will receive 3 or 4 first/supplemental first round choices (Please don’t just say stuff like Derosa will not generate even a supplemental 1st round choice. Check out the Elias rankings and you will know that Derosa will AT LEAST generate a supplemental 1st round choice and is on the borderline of generating an additional 1st round choice as a Type A ranked player. Those 3 or 4 1st round and/or supplemental 1st round choices will cover most of the high draft picks that were traded.
2. Lee is NOT signed for 3 (or a few years). He is only signed for one more year. Again please get your facts straight.
3. Lastly, your reverence for “Jokerty” may be misplaced. Ask the Cincy fans and writers. They have been really negative in reviewing his trade to obtain Rolen. Disregarding what the Blues Jays will get out of Encarnacion or in trade, the “Joker” traded two pitching prospects that are generally thought to be similar in projection to Perez and Todd (and Mortenson). I really would rather have Derosa and the chance to resign him or get the draft choices than Rolen and his $10million plus salary for next year. Scott Rolen is not near the same player he was when he came to the Cards and before his injuries, yet, including Encarnacion, “Jokerty” gave up more for Rolen than Mo gave for Derosa. While Walt was a great GM for the Cards, his competition got smart to his trades for Edmonds, McGwire and Rolen etc. (players in their prime) for prospects and Walt had more difficulty getting other GM’s to make that kind of trade the last few years he was with the Cards. This year the only teams to make that kind of trade were the Phillies, Red Sox, White Sox and Cards (that is, getting a player in their prime for prospects). Whether the Cards can resign Holliday remains to be seen. If they can (along with extending Albert), great. If not, and the Cards make a run this year, and it encourages Albert to resign, and they receive two high draft choices to replace, in large part, what they gave to Oakland, we should be satisfied with what Mo attempted and the farm system made possible. “Jokerty” made a similar trade, only he got Rolen 7 years after Walt got him for the Cards.
The DeRosa trade was horrible. Totally screwed up our bullpen. Plus he’s hitting .185 since he got here and the best you can hope from him with the bases full is a HBP. Meanwhile Perez is working on 8 scoreless outings in a row covering 9 innings (only two hits), and Todd just threw a scoreless inning in his debut last night.
We should’ve brought up Wallace to play 3B. If you still need Holliday, give up Colby and keep Ankiel for CF. I like Rasmus but he’s been a streaky drama queen the last two years who makes it easy to understand why LaRussa doesn’t think much of our hyped prospects.
streaky drama queen? such a comment is nigh a ban-able offense.
OK, so not really, but that’s a totally reactionary statement to make. Colby is a streaky hitter, we know that. He’s lost some weight for some bizarre reason, I don’t know why. That said, he’s going to get better, he’s going to hit, and he’s by far the best defensive player on the team.
@Snayke. Speculation? True. But no one on the inside had stated otherwise. JMo acts very cautiously and deliberately. He’s been bashed repeated in the press for failing to trade away prospects for vets (see ‘faberge eggs’). This is his style. All of the sudden, he panics and overpays for DeRosa. There was plenty of time until the trading deadline. Why did this happen? It indicates to me pressure was put on JMo to make the deal. Do you think it came from DeWitt? Hardly. The chairman is a hands off owner. We don’t need Sherlock Holmes to sniff out this one.
Allen Craig with another Hot Sheet nod … he is in triple A becaaaaaaaauuuuuuuussssseeeeeeee?
@shane…MO had no way of knowing that derosa was going to hurt his wrist(which is definitely the reason he is batting below .200), but don’t forget derosa has hit 7-8 homers as a cardinal, which is a ton more production than any third baseman we had put our there this season…perez+todd was probably too much, but we needed something for third/left in a bad way
not even gonna comment on your colby characterization
wallace is a first baseman in 2-3 years(we really don’t need that). if we re-sign holliday, it was well worth trading wallace for him…even if all we do is get to the world series, it was still very worth it considering the draft picks we will get back
“The DeRosa trade was horrible. Totally screwed up our bullpen. Plus he’s hitting .185 since he got here and the best you can hope from him with the bases full is a HBP.”
Or a home run, of which he has seven. Plus, he’s dealing with an injured wrist which happened when he was a Cardinal. And it totally screwed up the bullpen? In what way? Because there’s no Chris Perez to come in when the Cardinals are leading by six runs?
“Meanwhile Perez is working on 8 scoreless outings in a row covering 9 innings (only two hits), and Todd just threw a scoreless inning in his debut last night.”
Jess Todd threw a scoreless inning? Oh man, does he get inducted into the HOF this week or next?
Check out how much Cleveland thinks of Chris Perez. These are the situations when he’s came in:
ahead 11
ahead 2 (blown save)
down 4
down 10
down 4
down 4
ahead 9
down 4
ahead 2 (hold)
down 9
“We should’ve brought up Wallace to play 3B.”
Wallace isn’t a third baseman.
“If you still need Holliday, give up Colby and keep Ankiel for CF. I like Rasmus but he’s been a streaky drama queen the last two years who makes it easy to understand why LaRussa doesn’t think much of our hyped prospects.”
A streaky drama queen? Are you just making stuff up?
SNAYKE-
I could not have said it any better….
Wow some people overhere have lost it.
This is classic: Jess Todd threw a scoreless inning? Oh man, does he get inducted into the HOF this week or next?
I was thinking the exact same thing. How many relievers in MLB threw a scoreless inning this past week? Probably a crap ton.
If only Kyle McClellan could have been one of those crap ton.
I agree with Snayke as well although I think Colby needs either to hit the DL or go to AAA. At this point Craig could probably step in and fill that role a little better right now. People seem so high on Wallace but what were you going to do w/him? The A’s are a well run organization and though they have said he will get a shot at third they anticipate him ending up at first. We have a first baseman and he isn’t going anywhere. the only player that we gave up that concerns me is Todd. Not because he did well last night in his one inning of work but just a gut feeling says that this guy will do well. Otherwise, whatever we get for Holliday and DeRosa whether draft picks or extensions it will have been worth it and we came out ahead.
3 to 4 supplemental draft choices for Wallace, Mortensen, Perez, Todd, …
How many of them will develop and get to AAA or major league. I will not trade Wallace for all 3 so called supplemental draft choices.
On Cliff lee, thank you for correction. I said once 3 years and one time few years. It is only 1 and half year. But that is beside the point. Phils made a great trade a value trade and none of the players they gave up equal to Wallace.
If because of all the moves, cards are able to get to WS and/or sign Pujols all is forgiven. Just hope our GM learns and develops and in future does a better job in getting value in any future trades.
One thing that I didn’t seem mentioned anywhere in this article or in the comments is that Pablo Ozuna was a very highly regarded prospect when he was dealt. He tore up the Midwest League as a nineteen year old prospect and was ranked the top prospect of that league (ahead of number two Rick Ankiel) by Baseball America. he was also ranked the eighth best prospect in all of baseball the next spring ahead of Roy Halladay (12), Lance Berkman (13) and Carlos Beltran (14.) He was clearly the centerpiece of that deal.
There was one little problem, though. After 9/11, birth certificates of Latin players came under increased scrutiny and it was discovered that Ozuna was not one, not two, not three, but four years older than it had been believed.
A 23-year old tearing up the Midwest league is not nearly as impressive as a 19-year old doing so. Think Nick Stavinoha.
Yeah DeRosa has 7 HR’s to go along with that .185 average and .247 OBP. He’s clutch.
“Wallace isn’t a Third Baseman.” Your opinion. Which is wrong, BTW.
Dad posting on internet forums that coaches lied to Colby and that he should be traded, hopefully to Atlanta. Food poisoning causes two month slump at Triple-A. Knee injury results in another month missed. Request by organization to play winter ball is refused. Late night eating disorder causes a slump this year. A sore heel causes another month-long (and counting) slump. Noticeable weight loss occurs. Not a drama queen? Fine, I must’ve missed these types of things happening to all our other players not named Ankiel.
JD Drew?
Two points:
1. At the time of the DeRosa trade, IIRC, Samuel was thought to be the Indians’ top choice for PTBNL. But he went into a funk just when Todd got hot. So we lost Todd at the moment when he was peaking in AAA and kept Samuel. The whole thing was well-played by Cleveland, but if Samuel has straightened out his control issues, the long-term cost of the trade may not be as bad as it looks right now.
2. All this talk about Craig coming up: How would we use yet another right-handed bat, especially when it’s a guy who’s just learning to play three of the four corner positions? During the period when he was getting hot we acquired three right-handed hitters, and now K. Greene is back up with the varsity. It’s great to see AC raking, but his timing couldn’t have been worse. We just don’t have a place on the team for another right-handed hitter.
“Dad posting on internet forums that coaches lied to Colby and that he should be traded, hopefully to Atlanta. Food poisoning causes two month slump at Triple-A. Knee injury results in another month missed. Request by organization to play winter ball is refused. Late night eating disorder causes a slump this year. A sore heel causes another month-long (and counting) slump. Noticeable weight loss occurs. Not a drama queen?”
What does food poisoning, injured knees, sore heels and weight loss have to do with being a drama queen? I suppose Chris Carpenter is also a drama queen what with all the nerve damages and torn elbow ligaments.
And it isn’t MY opinion that Wallace is not a third baseman; it’s the opinions of roughly 95 percent of scouts.