I’ve got some big news coming re: the site but I realized that if I posted it today, it would undoubtedly be overshadowed by someone signing or not signing.
Zach Cox, Austin Wilson and Jordan Swaggerty conversations can go here. One note: I’ve mistakenly thought that Swaggerty was a senior. He’s a draft eligible sophomore — same as Cox. I still expect him to sign but given that today is the deadline that might be less of a sure proposition. Sounds like he’s looking for overslot bonus money.
Zach Cox Signed (Credit to Kendall Rogers again.)
Austin Wilson Did Not Sign (Per Keith Law.)
Jordan Swagerty Signed (Looks like the credit goes here.)
Update: Matthew Leach confirms in blog post.
Entries (RSS)
Couple of tweets from Jim Callis of Baseball America.
If he thinks Cox will sign: “Yes. In both sides best interests to get it done, and they will.”
On Wilson: “Still will be surprised if he signs.”
If Draft Day is like Christmas, what is today? The day that we actually get to go pick up our toys b/c our parents put them on lay-away?
Today is the day your big brother decides if he’s going to let you play with your toys…
And Wilson is that XBox 360 tucked away in his corner that he’s loathe to let you anywhere near.
Dustin Mattison reporting Swagerty will be a Cards farmhand. I assume this means he is in process of signing or a deal is done and just not signed yet.
I honestly think there is a good chance they will get all 3. it makes no sense for either Cox or Swaggerty to go into next years draft. everyone has talked about those reasons, no need to rehash again. as for Wilson, he was a staunch commitment to Stanford, but on the last day of signings, has still not announced he will attend there this year. that tells me it is about the amount he can get. unless it is an absurd number, say $5 mil, it will just be about paying him, and if money is the issue, there is a good chance it can get done. exciting day for all……and can SOMEBODY convince Bud Selig there HAS to be a better plan for handling the way this is done as far a the “deadline” goes.
Doubt that Cox or Swagerty stay in college. Callis is reporting “Not a chance” on Wilson and that he’d be “highly surprised” if he chose to sign with the Cardinals.
how ’bout an over/under on how many comments this thread will draw today? especially if the Cox signing goes till late tonight.
Cox WILL SIGN.. I will eat crow if I’m wrong. I go to school at Arkansas and I’m really good friends with a girl who dated him last year. She said she talked to him today and he is going to sign, just be patient!
Now, if Swagerty and Wilson sign I will be in an alcohol-induced coma for the next 24 hours..
I hope you are right and I am guessing he signs as well. Seems like you have friend(s) much closer to the situation than most if any of us…so hope your source(s) are reliable :)
My bet is on Swaggerty and Cox but sadly not Wilson. I would love to be wrong.
If I’m a betting man I’m with you on this one. But because I like to be optimistic I will say they all sign!! BTW – I notice alot of people adding an extra “g” in Swagerty’s name. If he is going to be in our system we need to learn to spell his name correctly ;)
He gets his name spelled correctly when he signs. And not a moment sooner!
LOL…That should be the same for “Cocks” and “Wheelson” too!!
We could just pre-emptively give him the “Double G” nickname!
You’re probably right about Wilson but consider this: If he and his parents really loved the Cardinals organization (which they seemed to have), then this is Wilson’s chance. If he goes to Stanford and proves as good as everyone thinks, there is no way he will fall to the Cards when he becomes draft eligible. So, if he and his parents really want him to be in this organization, this is their chance. I’m probably deluded but a point I hadn’t seen made before.
I posted this earlier on a different thread but it seems more fitting here. I would actually say no news is good news on Wilson. If it was leaked, as was a dollar figure, that could give Cox more leverage than he already has only being a sophomore. Would you want to be the team’s number one pick and get a bonus less than that of the 12th round pick? I know he wasn’t 12th round talent but that’s the way it would be perceived by the teams number 1 pick. I want both of them to sign but I bet we don’t hear anything about Wilson until Cox signs thus alleviating any link between the bonuses. Just MHO.
i dont think picking a team is a big concern for players. they may have preferred destinations but most of them seem satisfied with beginning their pro career anywhere. if not, and assuming a hard slot does not go into effect, they simply hire scott boras. boras throws out a ridiculously large asking price and the player slides down the draft board. meanwhile, boras talks to the big money teams and tells them the player is willing to sign.
i havent heard anything about wilson consulting an advisor. maybe he has and that info just isnt public. i would guess that if he was going to sign he would have hooked up with an advisor by now.
Wilson has an advisor, you can’t go through this without one who will be your agent later on, jsut that some are more visible than others and have to be now for the NCAA.
As far as it mattering which team and where, that is why the decision is so hard for parents and players out of HS (not always the money). I have a friend whose son signed out of HS, one of the worst teams among the 30, but in all places he would be he was very very close to home and parents there very often. You would be surprised how really homesick and loney these young players get, where college offers a more stable enviroment.
I can see why it is such a big dilemma for the Wilson’s, they want to watch their son play, as most parents do, and CA is a long way from most of the places he will play, for the next few years. Perhaps the extra money they are willing their son to sign for, can help. We don’t know much about why people make these decisions.
It’s very hard for anyone to understand unless you have been through it and you know their personal situation.
sure you can do it without an advisor. the top prospects usually announce who the advisor is, and this kind of sets the tone. players with advisors (particularly known agents/advisors) are considered a little easier to deal with because the advisor will guide the family on what to say…indicating a desired bonus, willingness to sign and that kind of stuff. a guy without an advisor is more of a wildcard. wilson went into the draft without an outside advisor. as a result, no one really knew what he was looking for.
Cox and Swags will both sign. I think there’s a better chance of Wilson signing then most pundits seem to think.
I have no clue what will happen today. You would think Cox will sign(and if I were betting then I’d bet on him signing) but it is going to require: 1)a ton of money and 2)Cox to come down a lot from his original asking price. I’d put the chances of him signing at 80-85%. He has little to gain, outside of another year of education, by going back to school. He’ll likely lose a lot of money by not signing this year.
I’d put the chances of Wilson signing at 15-20%, maybe a little less. If Cox doesn’t sign then the odds rise as the Cardinals can’t walk away without at least one. But the Cardinals rarely pay a player, pro or amateur, what they want. Remember that the Redbirds didn’t sign Kyle Russell in 2007 and they wouldn’t give Ian Kennedy the 2 million he was looking for in 2003 despite the fact that he was maybe the most polished HS arm in the draft. They also passed on signing Miers Quigley after taking him in the 2005 draft. They have a history of not signing good draft prospects.
One thing I’m almost positive about is that the Cardinals won’t meet either players demands. Cox was asking for ridiculous money and it’s obvious that no team was going to satisfy his demands. Wilson’s asking price is unknown but DO NOT expect the Cardinals to go over 3 million and it might be unlikely that they go above 2.5 million. I’m almost positive that no draft pick from the 10th round and beyond has ever been given more than 2 million and a lot of good players have fallen that far.
I’ve seen some say that they should just give him 4 million. Well 3.7 million is slot money for the 1ST OVERALL PICK. The Cardinals would certainly piss off MLB with a 4 million bonus for Wilson. Won’t happen.
Quigley had a mediocre career at U Alabama; it worked out for the best that the Cards did not waste money on him. Ian Kennedy has been mediocre as a pro, last I checked. The Cards were rumored to have offered Kyle Russell $800,000, but he was too greedy and the next draft did not get even $400,000 from the Dodgers.
During the Luhnow era, the Cards have a strong record of signing those they select. Russell is one of the bigger exceptions and it ended up costing him.
But I do agree with UB44 on bonuses for Cox and Wilson. There is no reason for DeWitt to bid against himself.
Isnt it amazing how many bigger deals are being shelled out to later round picks this year? Maybe I am just in the moment, but doesnt it seem like not only is the slotting system a joke (we all knew it was already), but players are doing a better job of manipulating the system to name their price and sometimes their destination. Now this isnt all bad, as we are seeing lower end teams pay up for talent in the later rounds, which is great. In the end as we start looking back on these drafts and judging them, we need to start ranking the players by what bonus they got, not where they were selected. I hope the Cards start taking advantage of this a little more, Wilson was a nice attempt but they also need to sprinkle in 2 or 3 more of these HS kids who may change their minds, instead of taking 4 year college players who profile as AAAA players. Risk/Reward, doesnt always have to come in the first 3 rounds. Exciting stuff guys, thanks for all the updates!
Agree 100 percent with Pickle. Kudos on drafting and recruiting Wilson, but I’d like to see more high upside/signability risks sprinkled into our top 10.
For what it’s worth, an L.A. newspaper quoted Wilson a few days ago stating how excited he is to be a Stanford Cardinal and talking about Stanford being part of a key ingredient to his life. Looks like he’ll be a Stanford man.
That doesn’t necessarily mean he won’t also sign however. I still think a part-time player deal like Jack McGeary did with Stanford/Washingington Nationals, might be a way to get the deal done.
Well, one way or another, he’ll be a Cardinal.
Do you have a link to the newspaper article? I would think this would be alot bigger news picked up on by sports writers. Not saying I don’t believe you but whats the link to the story?
I agree. Seems like a lot more over slot signings for players from rounds 2-12. The Cards are going to have to change tactics if they want to stay competitive in this area.
Maybe the craziest over slot signing so far was Sammy Solis. Since when does a college LHP that profiles as a back of the rotation starter get 300+k over slot?
Well, it’s been a crappy day for me thus far. Jordan Shipers from Bethany, MO has broken the bonus record for a player drafted after the fourth, and signed for $800,000. He was Missouri State’s best recruit.
I’m hoping for some good news on Wilson.
As sad as it sounds, Cox and Swaggerty signing wouldn’t really do much for me. My rationale for that is not because I don’t like the players, I like them both, but rather I’ve expected them to sign all along. So, if they sign and Wilson doesn’t, it was all status quo for me, and nothing unexpected. Wilson signing would be unexpected, and get me excited.
Vision,
I hate to say it, but I’m in the same boat as you man.. I just assumed that Swagerty and Cox were going to sign with no problems. On top of that, all this talk lately about how Wilson is seriously considering signing and I’ve almost changed my expectations to expecting him to sign. Obviously that’s irrational and I need to temper my expectations, but I can’t help but be a little disappointed if/when Wilson doesn’t sign..
Maybe I’m just intrinsically more of a pessimist than you guys, but at this point, ANY positive news on these three will be a major upper for me (and I need one).
So suppose Swagerty signs. Where does he slot into the farm system? Who’s Swagerty-like in the system that he suddenly, or even just eventually, improves on?
Swagerty is honestly a lot like Kyle McClellan. I understand they are going to try and make him a starter, but due to his size, and only possessing two major league caliber pitches, I think he’s ultimately a bullpen pitcher who relies on his sinking fastball and curveball.
This works as a comparison. K-Mac is frequently criticized for his loss of command in tight situations, but on balance, he’s been an above-average reliever for three years running. That has value.
On the other hand, he was also a 25th-round draft choice. I’m just sayin’…
i guess he is sort of an improved joe kelly. kelly and swags were college relievers, with swagerty have more collegiate success. kelly was a third round pick who a had good stuff but bad results. swagerty was a 2nd rounder with excellent results. fastball is not supposed to have as many mph as kelly, but he controls it better and has a very good curveball. i think both are around 6 foot, which is considered small for a right handed starter. therefore, many scouts think they will eventually end up as relievers. kelly began his minor league career as a starter. i think moz or luhnow said that they would let swagerty start initially.
as a starter, i would think swag would rank higher than kelly. given lynn’s mediocre AAA season, maybe he would be higher than lynn. he is definitely lower than miller. presumably he is lower than seth blair, his college teammate who the cards drafted in the supplemental round. jenkins is regarding as having more upside.
I guess as a reliever, it is possible he would go through the system like chris perez although they have different stuff.
if the Cards are willing to flush millions of dollars down the toilet on Mulder, Tino, Lohse, Penny, K Green, etc,etc,etc, they should at least be willing to invest a few million each on these kids so they don’t have to flush millions down the toilet on crappy vets. it’s time for DeWitt & Co to put their money where their mouth is. are they really willing to invest in the minors & build from within? or has all that talk been lip service? do the right think DeWitt & CO, do the right f’ing thing
Yeah, I understand your frustation. I feel some of that too. But, honestly, if you had told me going into the draft that we’d add Zack Cox, Seth Blair, and Tyrell Jenkins to our system, I would have done cartwheels. Wilson would have put us over the top. Maybe they’ll be an 11th hour surprise. Wilson hasn’t made any public declarations that he’s definitely, positively spurning pro ball, so there’s always a chance.
The Cards said they had Cox, Blair, and Jenkins in their top 25 heading into the draft. Assuming that’s true (no reason for them to lie about something that an agent might use to drive up his asking price), they have to be thrilled to get all 3 guys.
Based on the information we have, this looks like a very strong draft. The Cards ended up drafting 7 guys ranked in BA’s top 200 (pre-draft print edition). Even if they don’t sign Wilson (who may have been in their top 25 as well), they have to be confident that they took their best shot, and no other team would’ve signed him either.
Agreed Lou. My thoughts exactly. Throw in the C. Matias signing, and they’ve really helped their system this summer.
The Cards have also flushed away a lot of money on draft picks. In the late ’90s they gave seven-figure deals to guys like Chad Hutchinson, Chance Caple, and Nick Stocks. That’s in addition to big-dollar deals to guys like Ankiel and Drew, who were as good as advertised (for a while …).
True, they went cheap for a few years after that, culminating w. a purge of the scouting department in 2004 and a complete reboot in 2005. But it’s hard to blame the owner for not trusting his scouting and player-development personnel in the early ’00s. They did a flat-out miserable job of identifying, signing, and developing talent.
Now that the org has shown some competence in those areas, the team is spending money again. They went over slot w. Miller last year and Jenkins this year, and we have to assume they’ll pay up to get Cox and Swagerty as well.
I’m not sure why you lumped Mulder and Tino in w. Penny and K. Greene. The first two were Jocketty’s unforced errors. The third was a rare and unforeseen injury to a guy who’d looked like one of the year’s best FA signings before he got hurt. And the fourth was a case of San Diego having the legal obligation to withhold information about a player’s mental illness. If anxiety were treated the same way MLB treats physical injuries, the Pads would’ve had to disclose it, and there’s no way Mo would’ve made that trade.
i was just pointing out recent deals/trades/contracts that were a waste of money. i left out Edmonds $19Mil extension after 06 which easily could have been thrown in as a waste of money.
thanks for the reminder of chad huntchison. i had almost gotten the name out of my brain. ha! ya the late 90′s early 00′s were horrible drafts. i’m so grateful that DeWitt & Co hired Luhnow & let him get the people he wants & needs. it’s benn a lot worse & i’m so glad the org isn’t going back to those days.
The idea that the late 90s were “horrible drafts” has a lot of currency, but it isn’t really supported by the facts. From 1997 to 2001 the Cardinals averaged something like 7.4 picks per year who went on to have major-league appearances (not necessarily with the Cardinals). As far as I can tell, that is distinctly above MLB average. It’s easy to forget that in ALL farm systems, most of the guys never make it to the Show.
You’re right about the early Aughts, though. Only three have made it from 2002, and two of them stank something awful (Wonder Brad and, believe it or not, Reid Gorecki; Kyle McClellan was from that class, and I’d claim, has been an asset). 2003 was a little better, then 2004 was baaad again. Hard to tell on the classes since then, since not everyone who eventually will make it has done so yet. Anyway, that page has been turned.
2005 was definitely a fine vintage, though.
Take this with a grain of salt: Poster on the Post-Dispatch said he had inside info. . .Cox has already signed, and club is still working on Wilson. He placed those odds at 25 percent. Again, grain of salt.
Not the first time I’ve heard that Cox had either signed or was very close to signing. Still would like a bit more reliable source.
Yeah like Jeff Luhnow or John Mozeliak. ;)
Yeah, I guess that could work. Still don’t know how reliable those two are though.
What time is the deadline today?
Also, more and more in the past week or so, I’ve been getting this wierd comments page where I have to click a link for ‘comments” and that opens up the comments to be read? Is this normal? I thought we were going with threaded comments for easier conversations. Btw, it wasn’t like this over the weekend, but it’s like it now and it’s happened a couple times in the past two weeks.
what’s strange is now that I made a comment, I had to refresh to see the comment and now it’s back to normal.
12 PM EST, 11 PM CST, …
A person over at STL Today is reporting that K. Rodgers (who?) has signed with the Cardinals for somewhere between 600-650k. Take it for what it is worth.
Kenny Rodgers? I thought he retired.
Actually, it says that someone named K. Rodgers is REPORTING that Jordan Swagerty has signed for $600-650K
Late rounder Bernie Miklasz signed for $3.50… FWIW people who’ve seen him think it’s an overpay
What? Not a big market for overweight jewish journalists?
i think that kinda happens when there’s over 50 comments maybe
The report was from Kendall Rodgers who said that Swagerty signed for between 600k and 650k
Starting to get a bit nervous – wish there was more news re: the top three guys
Swagerty signed.
Appears Kendall Rogers has confirmed this – $600-650K
DOH! I just scrolled up a few and noticed this was already posted…my bad
Swagerty was the 75th pick in the draft. Slot for a college junior would be about $500,000. Because Swagerty was a sophmore, the Cards gave him 20 to 30 percent premium.
Hey AZ, does that mean I get a special shoutout in the Swagerty signed thread? (jk)
at least no one tried to doubt u karmaloop
Not really a 2010 Draft signing topic but our main guy from last year at this time was Miller…just happens he is pitching for QC tonight and is dynamite! So far 6IP 2H 2ER 0BB 10K’s!
Update – 7IP 11K’s
The kid has been nothing short of amazing this year. Without a doubt, thus far has been a great pick.
Is he a top 20 prospect in baseball now? Top 30? I think I’d have him in that sort of area. Sure I saw something not that long ago (mid-season) that claimed he was as good as any non-Strasburg SP prospect who hadn’t seen the majors yet (back when Stras was chewing up AA).
I think top 30 could be argued. Top 20 might be a little tougher.
I wouldn’t worry too much until a half-hour past the signing deadline; IIRC, MLB puts a lid on over-slot signings so they don’t leak out and get used as leverage for other players who haven’t signed.
Especially with Wilson; if he signs, we won’t know about it until 1 AM.
I think we need a live chat for the next 30 minutes!
Suspense is killin me! 20 mins!
no matter what, cox will happen at 11:59. wilson … i hope happens at 11:59:59.
Eh. I’m kind of numb now, the results of tonight’s events probably won’t kick in until tomorrow.
Link to chat on main page
Cox signed per mlb trade rumors
Cox gets $3.2M per Kendall Rogers
got more than Grandal, as i thought he would in the chat.
not only did he sign, he signed a major league deal. Did Boras fleece them, after they had already missed out on a certain Tigers pitcher who wanted a similar deal?
Anyone think the ML deal starts a bad precedent?
no. he was rated the top college hitter in the draft and was a draft eligible soph. IMO, unique situation. now if we draft another collegiate boras client, he would be smart to try the same thing (as an agent). not the same for a HS Boras client.
Also, there’s a good chance he’s in MLB within 2 years. Different situation to, say, someone like Nick Castellanos, who we might’ve signed as a similar but less advanced alternative.
Not really. For one thing, contracts are all done one at a time, and there won’t be any “precedent” to this when it comes to next year’s draft. For another, can’t you think of … several … guys on the 40-man whose slots you’d rather see occupied by Cox?
Not many organizations are willing to sign drafted players to minor league contracts. The fact that the Cardinals are now on the list of teams that have allows future draftee’s to use that as leverage and a demand for signing. No I don’t believe Cox deserves a spot on the 40 man roster right off the bat and I’m nto convinced he will be anything other than an average MLer.
As the saying goes, I don’t have to outrun the bear; I just have to outrun you. Without any excessively high opinion of Cox, I’d say the chances of him being a more useful major leaguer than Shane Robinson or Evan MacLane are essentially 100%. He can take either of their slots on the 40-man and cost the team next to nothing.
The Cards knew he wanted a ML deal going into the draft…so when they drafted him they knew they would have to give him a ML deal. This had nothing to do with the Porcello situation. People just need to move on from Porcello and look toward the future. And we spent a good chunk of money on this draft…so no cheap ownership discussions either :)
I’m not going to call the owners cheap but it seems like almost every team was throwing some way over slot money to 1-3 guys taken after the 1st round (often in rounds 5-10). I think in that regards the Cards went cheap compared to other teams. I think it may have been a miscalculation of the market (not realizing other teams were going to step up) as much as anything else but I think we didn’t come out as far ahead as it would seem on a relative basis due to that.
OTOH, they did get everybody signed from rounds 1 to 11, so why throw over slot money at them? Or are you saying that the “went cheap” part affected who they drafted? If the latter, I don’t see it. By round 5, there was nobody left on the board who just screamed “first-round talent with huge signability issues” except Wilson himself, and everybody knew he was a long shot with money not being the decisive factor. WTP?
I think Mo and Luhnow can be very happy with the way this draft worked out for the team.
I would say that they went cheap with who they drafted in the compensation round. They could have drafted Stetson Allie with the Seth Blair or Tylrell Jenkins selection. I understand Blair is more polished but Allie has way more upside. I would much rather have seen Jenkins and Allie in the system.
The Pirates spent big—very big—on their high school righthanders. First-rounder Jameson Taillon, the No. 2 overall pick, signed for a $6.5 million bonus, the biggest bonus any player received this year, while second-rounder Stetson Allie got $2.25 million. The Pirates’ total draft expenditure was expected to approach $12 million.
It’s interesting to go back and look at some of the mock drafts, and see what they thought about these guys. “Consensus,” such as it was, seemed to have Blair as a low-first or high-supplemental round pick. Taking him where the Cardinals got him hardly strikes me as going cheap.
Allie is an interesting question. The mock drafts had him all over the place, with signability concerns abounding (and at least one draft had the Cardinals taking him in the FIRST round). If they’d played it safe with their top choice and picked someone they were sure they could sign — and a lesser talent than most (not all) writers perceived Cox to be — then yeah, I’d have been disappointed if they hadn’t then rolled the dice on Allie. But you can hardly criticize them for going for a different guy who’d dropped to their slot and didn’t seem to have those concerns. Blair wasn’t a “cheap” choice for the slot, just a comparatively risk-averse one, and I have no problem with that. After all, we’d be calling for somebody’s scalp if they’d taken Cox and Allie and been unable to sign either of them, wouldn’t we?…
I just don’t get this argument. We signed Cox to overslot deal and a MLB deal. We signed Jenkins to over twice the slot. Swagerty got 30% overslot. Reggie Williams Jr got 3+ times overslot and I heard Dodd and Bryant were a decent amount overslot as well. That is a decent amount of overslot deals. And the hold up on Wilson was not money driven…so if he would have said I want to sign but I need $2+M or whatever it was the Cards were prepared to make that happen. I seriously doubt anyone would be questioning this topic if Wilson signed. You will see that they were in the upper 1/3 of spending for this draft when its all said and done.
If you don’t have the available cash for bonus (which teams don’t have this time of year) you got to get it done other ways (give up a roster spot) for your payouts. I have always read that is a dangerous thing to do, unless the player is ML ready by the following season. With that in mind, maybe they were thinking trade value more than anything, you can’t let someone sit too long on the roster.
Wonder who they will remove to accomodate him, any guesses?
I don’t know much about Cox, why did he fall later if he was that good, why did other teams stay away from him? Signability?
In a word, yes, signability, and the near certainty that it was going to take an over-slot deal (whether in money or the ML contract or both) to get him.
He asked for Alvarez money which was 6 million a year, He was originally thought to go 6-10 while being the best college bat available. Maybe him getting the ML contract was what we gave up in order for him to lower his price from 6 to a more reasonable 3. Using him as bait like we did with Wallace. I wouldn’t be against that at all.
Maybe you are right, plus when they knew Wilson wasn’t coming they had more to spend, the ML contract allows them to spread it out, until 2013 I read?
But is he Alevarez talent and able to contribute as soon as Alverez did, in the cardinals organization?
I don’t think Cox is an elite level talent personally, but I’m not a professional. I’m surprised they gave him that much, and I’m even more surprised they gave him a major league deal.
Oh well, glad to have him signed and in the system.
Really rough signing for my college teams though. Seemed like teams really went way over slot up and down the draft before they change the CBA next year (possibly).
I personally never saw Cox as an elite talent either. But his floor is as high as any player in the draft…and certainly the highest floor of any hitter IMO. The hope is you have a guy that can hit .300+ with 20+ HR (more power will develop…trust me) and play 3B (maybe 2B – but doubtful). He is also a guy that has the potential to move fairly quickly which does hold value. Could he reach the MLB with a Sept call up next year? Sure…but that is the fastest we would see him
The list of 3B who are hitting .300 with 20+ home run power is Beltre and Zimmerman. That’s it. If we expand that to .285 with +20 home run power, we get Rolen, Wright, M. Young, and Longoria. That’s elite company and I’ll be thrilled if that’s Cox.
As a sophomore, Cox had a 1.116 OPS in the SEC. That’s better power numbers than Zimmerman had at UVA. I’m prepaed to reserve judgment on his ceiling. Just because he’s so advanced now (having hit well at the highest level of college competition) doesn’t mean he doesn’t have upside. He’s 21, not 25.
We don’t see eye to eye on what elite means apparently. So you consider elite what I consider solid regular.
Apparently not. All of those guys listed made the all-star team or were up for the last spot but not voted in (Zimmerman, Young). There aren’t any better major league 3Bmen than the guys I just listed. Solid regulars to me are guys like Mark Reynolds, Casey McGehee and Ian Stewart. I guess you conside elite to be HOF caliber and I consider elite to be the current crop of all-stars at 3b. That’s fine. If Cox ends up being an all-star at 3b, I’ll be very happy.
I consider someone elite if they consistently are among the best at their position both offensively and defensively. At 3B the 2 guys that I consider elite are Wright and Longoria. Zimmerman is in that next tier with a declining ARod…Young is probably in that category as well. But I don’t throw around terms like “elite” or “ace” lightly. If someone is a #1 starter they aren’t necessarily an ace. There might be 6-8 legit “aces” in the bigs IMO. But apparently its just a difference of opinion. You use the word elite for the top XX number of players at a position regardless if they have shown the consistency on both sides of the ball for a number of years.
Now back to Cox. His D will not win gold gloves so you hope for an avg defender that can hit around .300 and hopefully give you around 20HR’s…until I see him with a wood bat consistently against decent competition I am not about to say he is going to be a solid regular or an all-star…but if I had to guess right now he will be a solid regular…probably above avg solid regular.
Zimmermann is better than Wright IMO, and he’s at least as good.
If Cox is a slightly above-average regular at 3B or 2B, then that’s a great result for a #25 pick. Wilson would’ve been a real shot in the dark and, with Holliday and Pujols (and Rasmus) the main meat in the Cardinals’ sandwich going forward, they really need to surround them with lots of inexpensive, average or slightly better players. That fills our needs more than a lottery ticket who may be an all-star or a bust.
As bc says, a .300, 20+HR guy at 3B or 2B is pretty much elite by definition unless their defence is absolutely appalling. There’s only 2 or 3 guys in the league at either position with those sort of numbers.
OK…thats your opinion…I think Wright is quite a bit better overall than Zimmerman. And your definition of elite jizes with BC and I don’t agree which is fine. We all have opinions.
I am disappointed that we never exchanged figures with Wilson though.
I saw that to (goold from the PD):
“Optimism for a signing faded in the past week, and Mozeliak said the two sides never exchanged numbers once it became clear that Wilson intended to follow his commitment to Stanford.”
Why not throw a number at him and see if it sticks – no harm in it if they thought he was worth it right??? What am I missing?
So now that Cox has a ML deal how long before people start shouting for him to go straight to the big leagues seeing we are in dire need of a 3B?
Its already happenin! Ridiculous!
Loux was declared a free agent by MLB. Does anyone know what the injury is that ARI found in the physical that made them decide not to sign him? I know he was a reach for their pick b/c he was going to sign a below slot deal.
nm … Loux’s July physical revealed a labrum tear and elbow issues according to Yahoo’s Jeff Passan.
Maybe the Cards threw a number at Wilson and they said it doesn’t really matter what you offer. When they said they never exchanged numbers maybe the FO meant they did not sit down with his agent and negotiate terms back and forth. We have no idea what actually went on.