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	<title>Comments on: Daily Farm Report 11/15/10</title>
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	<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2010/11/16/daily-farm-report-111510/</link>
	<description>Baseball&#039;s Future in the Gateway City</description>
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		<title>By: cariocacardinal</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2010/11/16/daily-farm-report-111510/comment-page-1/#comment-25333</link>
		<dc:creator>cariocacardinal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Nov 2010 00:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=6202#comment-25333</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fair enough.  One thing of note, it appears that The Surprise&#039;s stadium may play tougher offensively than most.  I notice that they seem to be worse hitters on avg than the league and better pitchers.  It could be the stadium or it could be the make up of the team.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough.  One thing of note, it appears that The Surprise&#8217;s stadium may play tougher offensively than most.  I notice that they seem to be worse hitters on avg than the league and better pitchers.  It could be the stadium or it could be the make up of the team.</p>
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		<title>By: pitch and hit</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2010/11/16/daily-farm-report-111510/comment-page-1/#comment-25325</link>
		<dc:creator>pitch and hit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Nov 2010 22:24:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=6202#comment-25325</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am in agreement, it&#039;s a few weeks with some at bats and some innings pitched, tired bodies and arms as well for many.   I don&#039;t know how everyone in general did, but I see this as a showcase, and what is important is how the player viewed hmiself against others he faced.
I also think that players &quot;stuff&quot; is more of a consideration than his stats.
The AFL is what it is, and should be taken for it as well. Doing good or bad isn&#039;t much of an indication but I do think in some instances it can help and in others hurt.
Chambers probably made the most of the opportunity, but not surprised, have seen him play in 3 levels and he is getting it done, for sure.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am in agreement, it&#8217;s a few weeks with some at bats and some innings pitched, tired bodies and arms as well for many.   I don&#8217;t know how everyone in general did, but I see this as a showcase, and what is important is how the player viewed hmiself against others he faced.<br />
I also think that players &#8220;stuff&#8221; is more of a consideration than his stats.<br />
The AFL is what it is, and should be taken for it as well. Doing good or bad isn&#8217;t much of an indication but I do think in some instances it can help and in others hurt.<br />
Chambers probably made the most of the opportunity, but not surprised, have seen him play in 3 levels and he is getting it done, for sure.</p>
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		<title>By: kelley</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2010/11/16/daily-farm-report-111510/comment-page-1/#comment-25323</link>
		<dc:creator>kelley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Nov 2010 19:06:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=6202#comment-25323</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for clearing that up....I see my mistake in my calculations, but I agree with riotmute&#039;s observation that he AFL calculations to mean much in the big picture.  My original statement that you took issue with was that I stated that the players sent to the AFL from the Cardinals farm system showed or played as well as the other teams be represented... I didn&#039;t say, nor do I feel like, we had the best player performance of the entire group in the AFL.  My comment meant that we were not the best team represented nor were we the worst team represented as stated by you above.  The Surprise team is ranked third today and that pretty much sums up where we fit into the overall mix in my opinion.  My earlier comment never was intended to reference the Cardinal players played as well as the best players attending...some were better and some worse.  Again in my opinion, the Cardinal fans should be able to take a positive feeling away form this AFL as it relates to how our players compared with the overall league.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for clearing that up&#8230;.I see my mistake in my calculations, but I agree with riotmute&#8217;s observation that he AFL calculations to mean much in the big picture.  My original statement that you took issue with was that I stated that the players sent to the AFL from the Cardinals farm system showed or played as well as the other teams be represented&#8230; I didn&#8217;t say, nor do I feel like, we had the best player performance of the entire group in the AFL.  My comment meant that we were not the best team represented nor were we the worst team represented as stated by you above.  The Surprise team is ranked third today and that pretty much sums up where we fit into the overall mix in my opinion.  My earlier comment never was intended to reference the Cardinal players played as well as the best players attending&#8230;some were better and some worse.  Again in my opinion, the Cardinal fans should be able to take a positive feeling away form this AFL as it relates to how our players compared with the overall league.</p>
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		<title>By: cariocacardinal</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2010/11/16/daily-farm-report-111510/comment-page-1/#comment-25321</link>
		<dc:creator>cariocacardinal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Nov 2010 15:45:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=6202#comment-25321</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[1.) you cant assume that the players who are not qualified are all worse than the all the qualified players (of our non qualified&#039;s for example Swaggerty was better than most and King was worse than most.)  Therefore you can not take a player&#039;s ranking off the qualified list and use the total players (qualified and non qualified) in determining the percentile.  I dont know if you made an error or were being disingenuous but it doesn&#039;t work like that.  You can only use qualified players and where they rank against other qualified players or use all players and where they rank against all players.

2) Why would you look at BA for hitters over the more robust and more encompassing OPS stat?  In that, Cruz is 31 and Chambers is 34 (neither top 3rd for ranked players.) With cox at #48 and Kozma at #55 that gives us an average for our ranked players of #42 -- An average in the bottom half!   And we are as good as any org?  

3) In pitching, we are only slightly better Using ERA (not a very telling stat but I cant say there is anything better easily calculable; though if given the choice I would take WHIP - also not good but maybe better) the 19th and 30th ranking.  That its one at the 1/3 mark and the other below the 50% mark.  Averaged together these players rank 24.5.  that puts them just slightly in the top half.  And we are as good as any org?

4)   Simple random chance would seem that we would have someone in the top 25% of ranked players if we were doing as good as any other organization.  Particularly when 2 of our hitters rank in the bottom 3rd.  Overall we appear to be about average.   Nothing wrong with that.  Probably not &quot;showing as well as any program out there&quot; but certainly not the worst either.

5) It is hard for me to compare our players to toher teams as I don&#039;t know enough about the other teams and there players.  Given that, all I can look at are the stats of our players and where they rank.  And the dont rank highly nor do they rank poorly.   I&#039;m sure there were several teams that did much better than our players (as well as some that did much worse).

6) I&#039;m not  a negative nancy when it comes to our farm system.  I&#039;m probably way above average in my thinking about how good our farm system is.  I go through lots of paper bags.  I&#039;m not necessarily high on all the players we sent but on others I&#039;m extremely high (it is me who has been comparing Chambers to Desmond Jennings ( atop 25 prospect in all of baseball) and have been doing so for months - long before the AFL)  But realistically our contingent in the AFL was only so-so.   This was a combination of who we sent and some players who dissapointed a little, mixed in with a couple that did OK.  But good or bad, I will call it like I see it and without many first hand reports I&#039;ll use stats to do that (and I think I;ve made my case well with them).

7) See riotmute&#039;s post below!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1.) you cant assume that the players who are not qualified are all worse than the all the qualified players (of our non qualified&#8217;s for example Swaggerty was better than most and King was worse than most.)  Therefore you can not take a player&#8217;s ranking off the qualified list and use the total players (qualified and non qualified) in determining the percentile.  I dont know if you made an error or were being disingenuous but it doesn&#8217;t work like that.  You can only use qualified players and where they rank against other qualified players or use all players and where they rank against all players.</p>
<p>2) Why would you look at BA for hitters over the more robust and more encompassing OPS stat?  In that, Cruz is 31 and Chambers is 34 (neither top 3rd for ranked players.) With cox at #48 and Kozma at #55 that gives us an average for our ranked players of #42 &#8212; An average in the bottom half!   And we are as good as any org?  </p>
<p>3) In pitching, we are only slightly better Using ERA (not a very telling stat but I cant say there is anything better easily calculable; though if given the choice I would take WHIP &#8211; also not good but maybe better) the 19th and 30th ranking.  That its one at the 1/3 mark and the other below the 50% mark.  Averaged together these players rank 24.5.  that puts them just slightly in the top half.  And we are as good as any org?</p>
<p>4)   Simple random chance would seem that we would have someone in the top 25% of ranked players if we were doing as good as any other organization.  Particularly when 2 of our hitters rank in the bottom 3rd.  Overall we appear to be about average.   Nothing wrong with that.  Probably not &#8220;showing as well as any program out there&#8221; but certainly not the worst either.</p>
<p>5) It is hard for me to compare our players to toher teams as I don&#8217;t know enough about the other teams and there players.  Given that, all I can look at are the stats of our players and where they rank.  And the dont rank highly nor do they rank poorly.   I&#8217;m sure there were several teams that did much better than our players (as well as some that did much worse).</p>
<p>6) I&#8217;m not  a negative nancy when it comes to our farm system.  I&#8217;m probably way above average in my thinking about how good our farm system is.  I go through lots of paper bags.  I&#8217;m not necessarily high on all the players we sent but on others I&#8217;m extremely high (it is me who has been comparing Chambers to Desmond Jennings ( atop 25 prospect in all of baseball) and have been doing so for months &#8211; long before the AFL)  But realistically our contingent in the AFL was only so-so.   This was a combination of who we sent and some players who dissapointed a little, mixed in with a couple that did OK.  But good or bad, I will call it like I see it and without many first hand reports I&#8217;ll use stats to do that (and I think I;ve made my case well with them).</p>
<p>7) See riotmute&#8217;s post below!</p>
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		<title>By: riotmute</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2010/11/16/daily-farm-report-111510/comment-page-1/#comment-25319</link>
		<dc:creator>riotmute</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Nov 2010 14:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=6202#comment-25319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Honestly, do AFL stats even matter at all? It&#039;s a crapshoot, miscellaneous grouping of talented players playing together for a few weeks, after playing full season ball. Unless you are amazing or horrific, I don&#039;t think we can tell anything at all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honestly, do AFL stats even matter at all? It&#8217;s a crapshoot, miscellaneous grouping of talented players playing together for a few weeks, after playing full season ball. Unless you are amazing or horrific, I don&#8217;t think we can tell anything at all.</p>
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		<title>By: kelley</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2010/11/16/daily-farm-report-111510/comment-page-1/#comment-25317</link>
		<dc:creator>kelley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Nov 2010 14:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=6202#comment-25317</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would think that since you are a regular on this daily farm report that you might be interested in posting the positive things about the cardinal farm system and not focus on arguing and negative issues. First of all there are 119 pitchers in this years AFL (only 57 are listed with enough innings to qualify for posting) and there are 98 position players (73 listed with enough innings to qualify for posting).....Delgado is 19th and Broderick is 30th and King didn&#039;t have enough innings to qualify....that makes for two in the top 25% and one not posted. The surprise pitching staff is rated #2 in pitching to date.  Secondly. there are 98 position players in this years AFL (only 73 are listed with enough innings to qualify for posting)....Chambers is 15th...Cruz is 22nd....Cox is 55th and coming on strong...and Kozma is 60th...that makes for two in the top 22%  and two within the top 60%....and that is a little better than your posted comment that the cardinals only had one player (Delgado in the top 1/3 period).  I still stand by my posted comment that these cardinal minor league players assigned to the AFL played or showed as well as any team, and maybe I do look through rose colored glasses and the view is not bad.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would think that since you are a regular on this daily farm report that you might be interested in posting the positive things about the cardinal farm system and not focus on arguing and negative issues. First of all there are 119 pitchers in this years AFL (only 57 are listed with enough innings to qualify for posting) and there are 98 position players (73 listed with enough innings to qualify for posting)&#8230;..Delgado is 19th and Broderick is 30th and King didn&#8217;t have enough innings to qualify&#8230;.that makes for two in the top 25% and one not posted. The surprise pitching staff is rated #2 in pitching to date.  Secondly. there are 98 position players in this years AFL (only 73 are listed with enough innings to qualify for posting)&#8230;.Chambers is 15th&#8230;Cruz is 22nd&#8230;.Cox is 55th and coming on strong&#8230;and Kozma is 60th&#8230;that makes for two in the top 22%  and two within the top 60%&#8230;.and that is a little better than your posted comment that the cardinals only had one player (Delgado in the top 1/3 period).  I still stand by my posted comment that these cardinal minor league players assigned to the AFL played or showed as well as any team, and maybe I do look through rose colored glasses and the view is not bad.</p>
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		<title>By: Lou Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2010/11/16/daily-farm-report-111510/comment-page-1/#comment-25315</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Nov 2010 13:03:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=6202#comment-25315</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ted, I don&#039;t think there&#039;s a definitive answer to your question. It&#039;s really up to teams to value their own prospects realistically. The Cards used to be somewhat astute when it came to selling high on prospects who were more highly rated by outside observers. One of the best examples was trading Pablo Ozuna to Florida in the Renteria deal following the &#039;98 season. Ozuna was a top-10 prospect before everyone realized he was actually 4 years older than he claimed. I don&#039;t know if the Cards knew that, but they seemed to have made a calculation that his value would never be higher.

But the same GM made a disastrous miscalculation of Dan Haren&#039;s value 6 years later. 

I don&#039;t know if any organization consistently values its prospects correctly and accurately projects their development. Atlanta, a pretty astute organization, sold low on Wainwright. The Dodgers, who for a while were the best at signing and developing young players from Latin America, completely missed Pedro Martinez&#039;s potential -- they thought he was frail and would break down.

The Cards probably missed some opportunities to sell high on Bryan Anderson and Daryl Jones when they were considered top-100 prospects. But Mo appears to have sold high on Brett Wallace. There&#039;s certainly no formula I&#039;ve seen that predicts these things with any accuracy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted, I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s a definitive answer to your question. It&#8217;s really up to teams to value their own prospects realistically. The Cards used to be somewhat astute when it came to selling high on prospects who were more highly rated by outside observers. One of the best examples was trading Pablo Ozuna to Florida in the Renteria deal following the &#8217;98 season. Ozuna was a top-10 prospect before everyone realized he was actually 4 years older than he claimed. I don&#8217;t know if the Cards knew that, but they seemed to have made a calculation that his value would never be higher.</p>
<p>But the same GM made a disastrous miscalculation of Dan Haren&#8217;s value 6 years later. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if any organization consistently values its prospects correctly and accurately projects their development. Atlanta, a pretty astute organization, sold low on Wainwright. The Dodgers, who for a while were the best at signing and developing young players from Latin America, completely missed Pedro Martinez&#8217;s potential &#8212; they thought he was frail and would break down.</p>
<p>The Cards probably missed some opportunities to sell high on Bryan Anderson and Daryl Jones when they were considered top-100 prospects. But Mo appears to have sold high on Brett Wallace. There&#8217;s certainly no formula I&#8217;ve seen that predicts these things with any accuracy.</p>
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		<title>By: cariocacardinal</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2010/11/16/daily-farm-report-111510/comment-page-1/#comment-25313</link>
		<dc:creator>cariocacardinal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Nov 2010 10:43:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=6202#comment-25313</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry if I didn&#039;t bring you enough flowers (actually I did, just some of them were either wilting or haven&#039;t fully bloomed yet).  The rest is just semantics.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry if I didn&#8217;t bring you enough flowers (actually I did, just some of them were either wilting or haven&#8217;t fully bloomed yet).  The rest is just semantics.</p>
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		<title>By: CJ</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2010/11/16/daily-farm-report-111510/comment-page-1/#comment-25312</link>
		<dc:creator>CJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Nov 2010 08:44:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=6202#comment-25312</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well he did play about 40 games at AAA last year and with these 20+ extra games that are considered to be pretty decently competitive i would say he is closer than you think, but most likley not ready to fullfill the jon J role by the start of the season i would say.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well he did play about 40 games at AAA last year and with these 20+ extra games that are considered to be pretty decently competitive i would say he is closer than you think, but most likley not ready to fullfill the jon J role by the start of the season i would say.</p>
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		<title>By: kelley</title>
		<link>http://www.futureredbirds.net/2010/11/16/daily-farm-report-111510/comment-page-1/#comment-25297</link>
		<dc:creator>kelley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Nov 2010 03:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.futureredbirds.net/?p=6202#comment-25297</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think anyone has mentioned that the Cardinals were the &quot;best performing organization&quot; this year in the AFL. The comment was that the cardinals farm team showed as well as any team represented and that would include from top to bottom of the players that were sent to the AFL.  This was a positive statement that I feel to be true and you have to focus on the negative for the cardinal players that participated.  Every team sent seven or eight players, and my observation was that the cardinals played or showed as well as any of them....nothing was said about the cardinals being the best performers.  I didn&#039;t check the stats on every player either, but that was my general observation and comment and at least it was positive.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think anyone has mentioned that the Cardinals were the &#8220;best performing organization&#8221; this year in the AFL. The comment was that the cardinals farm team showed as well as any team represented and that would include from top to bottom of the players that were sent to the AFL.  This was a positive statement that I feel to be true and you have to focus on the negative for the cardinal players that participated.  Every team sent seven or eight players, and my observation was that the cardinals played or showed as well as any of them&#8230;.nothing was said about the cardinals being the best performers.  I didn&#8217;t check the stats on every player either, but that was my general observation and comment and at least it was positive.</p>
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