Cards Trade Ryan for RHP Maikel Cleto
Posted on December 12th, 2010 by Jeff in Arizona Fall League, tags: Maikel Cleto
The Cardinals picked up minor league RHP Maikel Cleto from Seattle.
Cleto was originally signed out of the Dominican Republic by the New York Mets. By all reports he has a power arm. He made appearances both as a starter and a reliever, but projects more as a reliever. He pitched in the AZ Fall League this offseason.
Last season at high A High Desert, he struck out 7.3 per 9 and walked 3.9 per 9 innings.
Honestly, his stats do not overwhelm, but adding a power arm to the farm is always a good idea.
After the jump are a few videos of Cleto.
Warming up:
Spring Training:
Facing a batter in the AFL:
Entries (RSS)
Looks like another Samuel without the slider.
but a lot more hittable
This is becoming a hard team to pull for.
TLR isn’t the team.
He thinks he is.
JMo has become his poodle. Our minor league system was really screaming for another right handed relief arm.
Well, what else was he going to get for Boog? Things TLR had said (and, to be fair, Mo echoed) had reduced his trade value to near zero. Yeah, it would have been nice to cut a deal with the Ms for Dustin Ackley instead, but somehow I don’t think that was going to happen…
TLR really needs to put a cork in it when he’s tempted to talk about people on the team he doesn’t like.
The point is that there was no need to trade Ryan. He’s still cost controlled and the trade didn’t return value. Now we need a utility middle infielder (gee, you don’t suppose Miles will get a ST invite … ). This is a case where the GM needs to stand in the door and say “no” to the desires of the manager.
I think they plan on using green as the utility player. What is nice about Theriot, he provides some flexibility up the middle.
Unless the GM agreed with his general manager.
While LaRussa obviously was the biggest factor in Ryan getting traded, I think it’s a big mistake to assume it was just him. Both Pujols and Carpenter–two of the clubhouse leaders–have had public confrontations with Ryan, and there have been reports for two years now of how Ryan’s behavior rubbed many veterans the wrong way. Plus, the organization was not thrilled with the way Ryan did not inform them of his wrist problem or surgery. There are personal issues with Ryan that made him vulnerable when he became a liability at the plate. The buck stops with LaRussa, but it’s more than just a manager dissatisfied with a player.
On another note, Strauss did tweet yesterday that Descalso has backers in response to a direct question about how Shumaker can be excluded from earning his 2nd baseman. Considering it was a question about the coaching staff decision-making, I wouldn’t be surprised if both Greene and Descalso get long looks at training camp. I don’t see a long-term commitment to any veteran, much less somebody from the system. Which probably makes Ryan’s trade more frustrating for many people.
>>I think it’s a big mistake to assume it was just him.<<
I think it's a mistake to underestimate the power TLR wields inside the Cardinals organization. There were also reports of Ryan supporters inside the clubhouse (Wainwright). Pujols has, in the past, also been a Ryan supporter. The omnipresent chain around Ryan's neck when he plays was a gift from Albert. Brendan Ryan, I believe, was diagnosed ADD. It's just the way he is, for better or worse, and has nothing to do with lack of effort or heart.
I’ve never seen those reports about Pujols. In fact, he was usually the one who reportedly was the hardest on him.
Also, as I mentioned below, Ryan has refused to take medication for his ADD. That’s his decision and his responsibility.
Why do you think Ryan had trade value?
Really? You root for this team because of Ryan? Pujols? Wainright? Carp? Yadi? Holliday? Those guys don’t matter? Ryan is the reason your a cardinal fan?
What if that is his reason? What’s wrong with that? Brendan Ryan isn’t the only reason I rooted for the Cardinals, but I liked him. Certainly moreso than any of the players you listed (save Albert, maybe). He was fun to watch in the field, and the team is that much less interesting to me without him. Given a choice between Ryan and TLR, I’d take Ryan. I’m not watching to see Tony wear sunglasses constantly, or use 500 relief pitchers to record 7 outs.
As to the personality issues you alluded to farther down between Ryan and TLR/other players, they’re all big boys, and this is their job. They aren’t going to necessarily like everybody they work with, but they can suck it up and do their jobs.
Trading away an inexpensive 28-year-old who is one year removed from a 2.7 WAR season for a guy who is in his third year of A-ball? Sounds reasonable. And I’m sure our 900 ground ball pitchers are going to be thrilled.
Mo is TLR’s puppet.
For what it’s worth my local Minneapolis rag says the kid can throw 100 miles an hour. I suppose we’ll eventually lose him in the rule 5 draft.
Why all the sadness for losing Ryan? Granted he was a slick fielder, but the guy couldn’t hit and managed to commit 17 errors.
If the Cards need a good glove, no hit short stop they can sign Adam Everett.
I’m indifferent. I can see the pro side, defenseive wizard, and the con side, club house nuisance.
In the end I think it will work out well for Ryan and the team.
I applaud Tony for making a tough decision. He is always thinking of the team first. He likes to win and I like it when he wins.
I agree. I still think there is a chance for Ryan to turn it aroung. However, when you have a contending team it makes it tougher to take chances.
Because Ryan didn’t provide flexibility up the middle. The issue here is not losing boog. It’s keeping schumaker as our starting 2 bagger. It terrible management of resources/assets and is indicative of the Past 2-3 seasons(Mo’s reign)
What resources have been wasted?
Are you really paying attention here? Ryan was a resource, completely wasted. The latest of many. Let’s see — Ryan, Craig, Rasmus, Bryan Anderson, David Carpenter, Ryan Ludwick, Ruben Gotay, Brett Wallace, Clayton Mortensen, Chris Perez, Jess Todd, Luis Perdomo, Luke Gregerson, Jarrett Hoffpauir. Have I left anyone out? Anthony Reyes, Scott Rolen, Jim Edmonds. How far do you want to go back here?
All systematically alienated, underutilized, or never given a chance, value undercut and then eventually dismissed for little or no return. A mid-market team with a top-heavy payroll cannot succeed for long operating this way.
are we really upset about D.Carpenter, Gotay, Wallace-Mortensen (who got us Holliday), Hoffpauir (really?)? Oh, and Edmonds got us Freese. I’m not sure I see your logic, and I’m not one of the ones who likes this trade.
He’s thinking of his deep lying disdain for players that don’t play his way, regardless if they better the team. It’s disgusting and leads to Aaron miles getting ABs
Please enlighten me about Ryan and how his sub .280 obp is “better for the team”.
And why bring Aaron Miles miles into this. Seeing how Miles manged to hit .281, you could also make a case that he deserved more of Ryan’s abs. However, I think Miles really only avaraged less than 10 abs a week.
Very simple: Ryan got back more runs via defense than he gave away at bat. Miles did the opposite. Ryan played brilliant defense, Miles played hideous defense. Why is this difficult?
You are comparing a starter to a utility sub. Are you expecting steller defence from your utility guy? How bad is ryan that you have to compare him to a utility sub as justification to keep him? Aaron miles is a utility sub that gets less than 10 abs a week and fills in where needed. Two totally different positions, unless you are advocating keeping Ryan as strictly a back up – which you could have a point from that aspect.
No amount of great glove work makes up for a starter having a sub .280 obp. He had one of the worst offensive stats, if not the worst in baseball last year. Ryan last year was the best defensive shortstop. Meaning he was the best defensive player in the game, and yet only managed a 1.0 WAR. That is actually not good and less than average. 1.0 is Ronny cedeno.
I think that is the exact point. There was no need to trade B.R. His defense added great value (better than Theriot at SS and much better than Skip at 2B). You could easily see the late inning defensive arrangement of Theriot at SS and BR at 2B (or preferably BR at SS and Theriot at 2B … where he belongs anyway).
no doubt whatsoever that tlr values doing the “things the right way” over doing things well. he’d be dumping clobby if he could. this is in part because of how he is and in part because he puts no value on the future (ie, he doesn’t really have one). giving boog one more year to establish whether he could hit enough to be the starting ss for several years (at lest till koz makes it, or doesn’t) has no bearing on managing a team that goes about their individual business the “right way”. i’m afraid bdw and tlr are both looking at this year as the year because apu will not be back and they know it.
His defense made up for his bat and then some. And on a team with a groundball heavy staff, a stellar defensive SS is a must. Who cares how he hits? His value is in his glove.
I’m not upset that boog was traded per se. That’s just, whatever. I’m mad that we have kept schu
At second. Ryan at short and theriot at second is our best MI
And that would actually be an worthwhile and interesting debate. It just seems that most of the people are overreacting over the loss of Ryan.
It’s funny how when Molina hit 215 with a horrible OBP in 2006, TLR has said that he could hit even worse than that and still play everyday. Now Ryan has just as good of glove only at shortstop and there is a different tune to TLR. Granted Molina is great with the pitchers, but I imagine a superb shortstop on a groundball staff should be just as well.
Little bit different.
In 2006, Molina also hit the NLCS winning home run and was the starting catcher of a staff that won a world series. Plus, Molina was well liked in the club house.
Ryan on the other hand is not well like by Pujols and others. It wasn’t just a LaRussa-Ryan issue.
Historically, catchers aren’t expected to hit, because their ability to call a game is valued more than anything else by managers. Middle infielders are supposed to have at least a good OBP, because they’re expected to be a threat on the base paths (given that most middle infielders can, you know, run).
While a great defensive shortstop is an excellent enough value to have over what he does at the plate (see: Ozzie Smith, and despite his slap hitting, his OBP was usually a good deal over .300), it’s not the same as what the catcher’s responsible for.
How about Cleto, Matias, and Miller in a couple of years? As for Ryan I bet Carp isn’t crying over that deal!
It should be noted that Carpenter wanted Ryan playing SS when he pitched because of his defense. However, he also one of the ones who had a public confrontation with Ryan, so who knows how the actual relationship was.
The confrontation was only public because the cameras peaked around the corner. Carp tried to make sure that it wasn’t public. He may have not liked his ADD behavior but he sure did request that Ryan play sort EVERY game that he pitched.
I don’t think Cleto has a chance as a SP with his command and with the STL organization’s inability to get Ps with bad command to fix it. I don’t think we could expect more for Ryan, but I still would rather have Ryan-SS/Theriot-2B over Theriot-SS/Skip-2B.
Of course Carp doesn’t like the deal, he lost his personal shortstop for a guy in high A who he will never be a teammate of. Why would he be happy about that?
On another note…. I was wondering if anyone thought picking up Andrew Miller who was non-tendered to be the long innings guy out of the pen or to be a stater at Memphis might be an interesting move for StL?
http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=453192
yep
I don’t profess to know if the trade will work or not. Since the previously won with a shortstop similar to Theriot, David Eckstein, I presume they feel that a groundball staff can win with a shortstop with less than stellar fielding range. Since LaRussa counts on Duncan so much, I presume Duncan was OK with the move.
The problem I have with the trade is that for approximately the last month the team ran down the value of Ryan. We will never know what other offers could have been had, but I presume all of the negativity about Ryan the the team put out did not help. This is the first time that I have seen someone on the Cards treated like Ryan was in the press by the team. Will Rasmus be the second? This is something that routinely happens in the Chicago media (particularly the Chicago Tribune and WGN) when the Cubs were getting ready to get rid of a player or manager. Hopefully the Cards are not patterning themselves after the Cubs.
Last point. If you notice that Mo seems to be accomodating what LaRussa wants (Theriot, Berkman, trade Ryan), but he is doing so without trading the prospects. Maybe the deal is to give LaRussa what he wants, and he will either win or be gone, but to not stray from the idea that they will build from within. The problem there will be that the 4 man bench (excluding the backup catcher) as currently formulated (Craig, Jaay, Greene and Descalso (??) will be very inexperienced.
I love how people try to introduce a reality TV/Sope Opera Dynamic. Brendan Ryan’s brutal year at the plate drove his value down.
This ownership and Larussa have been here 16 years and have a good track record. I am not sure why people get so upset over the Ryan’s and Hector Luna’s of the world.
I also wouldn’t say Mo doesn’t trade prospects. In fact, I would say the exact opposite. We have trade lots of prospects the last couple years.
Depending on how spring plays out, I do not see Larussa going with that many young players on his bench if they can still get time in Memphis.
Comparing Ryan and Luna misjudges their respective skill sets so severely that there’s really no point in continuing this conversation.
Good point. Luna could at least hit some.
And the great value of Ryan…a guy projeted to be a utility guy on one of the worst teams in the american league.
Just sign Adam Everrett if Ryan is so valuable.