One of the more interesting comments I’ve heard about Bryan Augenstein is that his 6’6″ frame improves the speed of his fastball because it has less distance to travel to the plate. While that’s true (the ball leaves his hand later traveling a shorter distance and encountering less resistance), it’s likely not a dramatic jump in the final velocity when the ball reaches the plate. Still, interesting to me nonetheless. So who are the tallest and shortest pitchers in our minor league system?
Quad Cities
Tallest: Angel DeJesus - 6’6″
Shortest: Justin Wright - 5’9″
Palm Beach
Tallest: Daniel Calhoun, Maikel Cleto, Chase Reid, Shelby Miller – 6’3″
Shortest: Joel Pichardo, Aaron Terry – 5’11″
Springfield
Tallest: Nick Additon – 6’5″
Shortest: Richard Castillo, Samuel Freeman, Ryan Kulik – 5’11″
Memphis
Tallest: Brandon Dickson, Chuckie Fick, Adam Ottavino, Rich Rundles – 6’5″
Shortest: Eduardo Sanchez, Raul Valdes – 5’11″
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I remember a time (back in the late 90′s I believe ) when almost all the Cardinal pitchers were 6’4″ or over.
Good article, but all heights/weights not accurate. :)
Sorry forgot to finish, the taller the pitcher the less time it takes to get to the mound which means the less time that the hitter has time to see the ball, more velo means it takes even less time.
Taller pitchers do seem to have much success but some have a lot of trouble finding the spot (Andrew Miller, LHP for example).
Then there is Lincecum, that refutes much, who I think stats say he is 6ft but he is less. No one really gives their real height.
Mike Fast, writing for Baseball Prospectus, looked at this recently, and concluded that the difference between someone like Lincecum (or tiny reliever Tim Collins, who’s listed at 5’7″ but isn’t even that tall) and one of the 6’7″, 6’8″ guys. The conclusion was that there might be as much as a 2-foot difference in how far the ball travels after it leaves the pitcher’s hand. That isn’t huge, but at 95 mph, a batter needs all the reaction time he can get.
I find it interesting that while Cardinals farm hands gravitate toward the “tall” pitcher (as in almost all systems), there are none that are _very_ tall — no Betances, Brackmans, Van Mils (7’1″!). Purely statistical effect, or does the draft brain trust avoid such guys because of the tendency for their mechanics to get out of whack?
We did sign a 6-9 lefty a month or so ago. I think it has to do with the fact that the mechanics seem to get out of wack aand a lack of frame of reference on how to best teach these guys how to pitch to best use there skill set. Seems most tall guys thrown 3/4 arm angle. Imagine trying to hit a 6’10 pitcher who comes straight over the top.
Yes, very tall and lanky pitchers don’t even get drafted often unless they have good velo or show projection, you are right about arm angle.
I wonder if Augenstein’s height had a lot to do with his struggles, and fixed by Duncan. I think he grew a bit since college.
Broderick was 6’5″ I think. Carp is tall as well.
Lincecum has an unusually long stride which makes up for his lack of height.
Isn’t Waino 6’7″. I think he could be a good one. Hope they reattached his elbow well. /o)
Has anyone heard anything today about Taveras?? I know he’s going on the DL but that’s about all I’ve found.
Scott Gorgen, Springfield starter on the DL is 5’10″.
They haven’t said much other than DL, I think it wont be an extended stay on the DL. He was in a ton of pain but when he was being helped off he had weight on it.
It is not just the fact that the ball arrives slightly quicker (due to the relase point being closer to the plate) but there is a theory regarding the drop angle of the pitch. This results in a couple of things, a slight uptick in velocity due to gravity and the ball coming from a position that is out of the strike zone (high) and falling into the strike zone. This makes it sightly harder to judge which balls are going to be strikes. The natural drop on the ball also allows a tall pitcher to throw with less effort which is why the theory is that short pitchers break down easier and thus are often moved into relief roles. I’d also imagine that their are some advantages inhaving a longer stride length but have never heard anyone talk about it.
On the down side, some say that tall pitchers have a harder time getting their mechanics right.
Good stuff CC.
i always assumed that it was the rotational acceleration/torque from having a longer arm. sort of like, if you take the same hammer and swing it with your hand midway down the handle, you get less force than if you hold it at the end of the handle. you’re just as strong in both cases and the handle is just as heavy, but the added torque gives you more force.
You’re right if we’re talking about a rigid member (hammer handle) but since so much (all?) torque is muscle related, I’m not sure you can make an easy comparison between elastic members (various arms).
That would be the full extent of my statics/dynamics knowledge from college.
Muscle will have to force the arm through once the core has already whipped it around with as much torque as possible. When the arm drags from the rotation of the body, it has elasticity. The longer the arm, their tends to be more elasticity. Once the arm has passed the cocking phase of throwing (the point of prime elasticity), force applied by muscle does the rest of the job. So arm speed is a combination of momentum and strength. So if the arm drags, its going to be pulled along eventually, with great elasticity at such high speeds, so when your arm whips forward after the cocking phase, there is going to be a lot of torque, even more so with longer arms. But I do agree with the comment below. Bottom line, look at the radar gun. After that, look at the stride length, to make sure the guy throwing 95 that your about to sign a major league contract is indeed a pitcher, and not just a thrower.
Collins is 5’5″ – recently joked he liked MLB accomodations because the beds were so big he could sleep across them. He releases very high, so that he can still get the downward arc of a pitcher 6’1″. He also has an almost Japanese style wind up where he has a high leg kick and his back is almost square with the rubber before he wheels and deals. Point is, at 5’5″ he has been very successful so far, but his delivery is not what you would call standard or something you would teach.
While it is just my theory based on physics, if the arm speed is the same, then a bigger arc (from a long pitcher) is going to generate more velocity so they naturally have more upside. Of course, a more compact arc might allow for more arm speed than a longer arc, so the shorter guys can make up the difference. Bottom line? Probably look at the gun – forget the height! :)
Someone sent me this very relevant link yesterday.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/tom_verducci/04/12/fastballs.trackman/index.html?xid=cnnbin&hpt=Sbin
In summary it talks about a new system that measures pitcher’s release points at its affects. In general a 10 inch closer release point adds about 2MPH to the fastball. It doesn’t specifically equate release point ot height and it gives one example of a 5’10 player with a long stride and a closer (to the plate) release point but I’d think in general tall pitchers would have closer release points. The article goes further to show that pitchers with closer release points are overall more successful.
It also talks about the spin on curve balls and mentions longer fingers help give a ball more spin. Again, though not specific in the article, I would assume that taller pitchers have slightly longer fingers on average.
Which I’d had this article a couple of days ago.
That’s pretty interesting.
Wonder if more extension and closer to the plate release point can be taught to pitchers who are already in pro ball, or if that would mess them up.
Thanks for posting that link, it is a darn interesting project.
You mentioned that it probably isn’t a dramatic jump in the final velocity towards home plate. Actually, for every foot a ball doesn’t travel, it adds 3 mph(3 mph difference in reaction time) to the pitch. All the greatest pitchers tended to have incredibly long stride length, some through mechanics that were only found in the greatest pitchers when their mechanics were analyzed meticulously frame by frame. Roy Oswalt for example, we can all agree is a short pitcher. He has a stride length of some 7 and a half feet. The average for a major leaguer is about 6 – 7 feet. So in the long run of a major league career, a larger stride length could indeed have a dramatic impact on statistics and dominance.
Also, it’s worth mentioning that while height does often equate to a larger stride length, specific mechanics such as the push off in pitchers like Roy Oswalt, Nolan Ryan, and quite a few others can add another foot to the stride length. It’s a bit much to describe in a brief comment, but it involves the lifting of the back heel just before foot strike, and before the back foot turns onto the shoe lace side of the foot. Also, if you take a look at Tim Collin’s mechanics, especially visible in a still frame, is that even before foot strike, his back foot has already slid about a foot forwards from the rubber. Part of this would be from his very high, almost uncanny leg lift creating an enormous amount of momentum, and sense he is turned in so much, when he leads with his lower body, this momentum pulls his back foot off the rubber very early(before foot strike), and very much.