Maikel Cleto Still Adjusting to Memphis
Posted on July 26th, 2011 by azruavatar in Maikel Cleto, tags: Maikel CletoCardinals’ fans surely miss Brendan Ryan’s defense at shortstop right now. Brendan Ryan probably misses winning ballgames in the midst of a 16 game losing streak in Seattle. The Cardinals return on that trade has been surprisingly good though as Maikel Cleto has played his way from Palm Beach through Springfield to Memphis. After making his sixth start in Memphis last night, there’s probably some work to be done.
The book on Maikel Cleto a couple of years ago when he was acquired in the J.J. Putz trade by the Seattle Mariners was virtually the same regardless of who you asked: live arm, unrefined secondary pitches, room for projection, needs work. That was the report that you’d find in some variation at any number of places.
Baseball Prospectus – Jan. 6th, 2010:
The Good: Cleto’s upside remains considerable, as his fastball sits in the mid-90s with a bit of sink, touching 98 at times. He’s a big, physical presence on the mound and built to eat innings.
The Bad: One scout classified Cleto simply as “a spectacular mess.” Beyond the impressive velocity, he brings little else to the table, as his slider and changeup are rudimentary offerings.
Baseball America – Jan. 28th, 2010:
A physical righthander with a slinging arm action, Cleto sits comfortably at 92-94 mph with his fastball, maxes out at 96 and holds his velocity deep into starts. He shows advanced control of his fastball, which has sinking life down in the zone. He’s still developing his secondary stuff, which is made more difficult by the way he dramatically slows down his delivery when not throwing heat. Cleto’s slurvy, high-70s breaking ball features inconsistent rotation, and he shows little faith in his below-average changeup.
The reports all read the same. When the Cardinals acquired Cleto, he required protection on the 40-man roster but the Dominican right hander has moved up surprisingly quickly through the minor league system. Derrick Goold had a typically tremendous writeup of him at the start of June when Cleto was still in Springfield. One paragraph in that particularly sticks out (emphasis mine):
The Cardinals have worked to correct both Cleto’s lack of command and his lack of success with his secondary pitches. [Dyar] Miller and several other pitching coaches in the minor leagues talked with Cleto about keeping his front arm – his lead arm – closed and to pitch “sideways” to the plate. This would create more deception in his delivery by hiding the ball longer. Cleto used to throw with such a focus on velocity that he would fly open early, give a full-frontal view of the pitch he was about to throw and often have the pitch stray high in the zone. A high walk rate and plenty of fly balls was the tip off.
It’s hard to overstate the jump that the 22-year-old pitcher has made in terms of competition. Cleto pitched 63 innings between Palm Beach and Springfield with 69 strikeouts and 22 walks. His arrival at Memphis, marred by a particularly ugly start on Monday, shows the manifestation of control problems. Through 32 innings, Cleto has walked 18, including 6 on Monday.
With an emphasis on developing secondary pitches, Cleto is being asked to do things on the mound and rely on pitches that he’s not had success with in the past. It’s part of the natural maturation process for pitching prospects and it might help explain some of the walks. (Similar to the instruction Joe Kelly has received to pitch inside to hitters more often.) Cleto’s upside is still quite high though and it should be an encouraging sign to have another legitimate starting prospect in the rotation at AAA. Given that Cleto’s projection is less certain than say Shelby Miller, there’s still a strong possibility that Cleto is ultimately a reliever but the starting opportunity window has not passed him yet.
Improving his command and control at Memphis will be an important part of his development. It’s not reasonable to expect perfection after 6 starts — but it’s also not unreasonable to recognize that imperfections still exist.

Entries (RSS)
Its possible to see him in STL in 2 to 3 yrs…….sp
If it takes him 2-3 yrs to establish himself, I think it’s safe to say that he’s probably a bust/long-term middle reliever. He really should be looking at getting some action in the pen next year, with a possible starting role in late 2012/early 2013 if he can clean up his control a bit, especially on his secondary stuff (but it was also a bit wayward on the FB in his major league cup of joe, IIRC – almost as if he was over-throwing a bit and peppering it all round the zone).
how many options does he have left?
So is Boggs a reasonable comparison at this point?
I don’t think so. I think Boggs’ limitations were more closely related to him not quite having good enough stuff, nor quite good enough control to succeed as a starter. He was plenty polished, he just wasn’t good enough. Moving to relief helped Boggs focus on his best pitches, and he was also able to add a couple ticks to his fastball leading to success in the majors.
Cleto, however, is still developing both his control and his secondary pitches. Boggs was more of a finished product when he was converted to relief.
The thought that a 22 year old will improve his control at the upper levels is a pipe dream. Just like him getting a better breaking ball. Pitcher’s command usually stay the same, and walk rates go up when facing more disciplined hitters with a smaller stile zone. Also, you cant teach a pitcher a breaking ball. Either they can spin the ball well, or not. Jaime had a good curveball and he was taught a cutter. Same with lohse and McClellan.
I disagree that players don’t improve. If they get to a new organization, focus more on getting there body into shape and work on simplifying mechanics and setting up mental checkpoints on where they should be positioned at different stages of the delivery a change in control can happen very easily. Remember he was in High A early in the year, the reason they are advancing him is because hes progressing.
I dont beleve that…I tend to believe if a kid has command of a mid 90s fastball then he has the atheltic ability to command other pitches. The command of secondary offerings can develop later.
The question I really have is despite the scouting reports did Cleto ever have solid command of his fastball.
No his command was horrible before this year and has been good this year. He had very good control at Palm Beach and it regressed a big at Springfield and Memphis. Probably as a result of working to throw the breaking pitch more. For those who saw his debut once he calmed down after the 5 runs had scored he threw a few good sliders.
reifer is a good example of someone fixing control issues at high levels. after two years of posting 4+ BB/9 rates in the low minors, reifer put together an excellent 2010, with a 2.50 BB/9 rate.
it might be generous to say that chris perez has “fixed” his control issues, but he certainly improved them to the point where he was at least acceptable in his control. in QC and Springfield in 2006 and 2007, he had walk rates around 6 BB/9, followed by a brief 2007 stint in memphis with a 9 BB/9 rate in a small sample. the next year, he came back to memphis and got his walk rate down to 4.26 BB/9. since then, he’s posted walk rates around 4.5 BB/9 in the majors. not pretty, but enough to get by if you have good stuff. he’s now being done in by a diminishing K rate, but without his walk rate rising at all, so i’m not sure his issues now are primarily about his control.
Well I have to say that I’m happy to have this “spectacular mess” in my team’s system. I look forward to the box scores of his starts and agree with those who think that he has a good amount of time to harness his control and develop some secondary pitches.
What I don’t get is the tactic of taking a guy who has been universally dubbed a “spectacular mess” and is coming over from another system and jacking him up and down through a tour of four levels of his new system in less than a half a season at the first hint that he is actually getting it together. Let’s see, that would involve four new pitching coaches, four new managers, at least four new catchers, rapidly changing levels of competition, about 100 new teammates and so on.
Anyway I think that the recurrence of some of his old issues is to be expected. To me this guy has fire balling closer written all over him but I hope we’ll give him a little time in one place to get there.
He was brought up because he was on the 40 man roster and it was a necessary situation. Kind of like calling up Steven Hill last year for a bit. They needed the extra arm, they probably hoped they wouldn’t have to use him but ended up doign it also. He should be fine.
A consistently under-rated prospect, IMO. He has way more ceiling, as a SP or a RP, than guys like Joe Kelly, and frankly better results as well. I think there’s a fair argument to be made that he’s our #3 pitching prospect, although I think I prefer Jenkins, and one could argue for Rosenthal as well. That said, he’s only a few tweaks away from being an impact player at the top level IMO. I’m not convinced he ever makes those adjustments, but if he does he’s one of only two guys in the high minors with top-of-the-rotation or closer potential IMO.
Is it a stretch to say that the Cardinals might have “too many” starting pitchers in late 2012? Sounds crazy I know, but add them up and it seems possible.