Comments on: Maikel Cleto Still Adjusting to Memphis

By: VinegarBend

VinegarBend — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 14:01:49 +0000

Is it a stretch to say that the Cardinals might have “too many” starting pitchers in late 2012? Sounds crazy I know, but add them up and it seems possible.

By: Felonius_Monk

Felonius_Monk — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 11:32:06 +0000

A consistently under-rated prospect, IMO. He has way more ceiling, as a SP or a RP, than guys like Joe Kelly, and frankly better results as well. I think there’s a fair argument to be made that he’s our #3 pitching prospect, although I think I prefer Jenkins, and one could argue for Rosenthal as well. That said, he’s only a few tweaks away from being an impact player at the top level IMO. I’m not convinced he ever makes those adjustments, but if he does he’s one of only two guys in the high minors with top-of-the-rotation or closer potential IMO.

By: Felonius_Monk

Felonius_Monk — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 11:28:14 +0000

If it takes him 2-3 yrs to establish himself, I think it’s safe to say that he’s probably a bust/long-term middle reliever. He really should be looking at getting some action in the pen next year, with a possible starting role in late 2012/early 2013 if he can clean up his control a bit, especially on his secondary stuff (but it was also a bit wayward on the FB in his major league cup of joe, IIRC – almost as if he was over-throwing a bit and peppering it all round the zone).

By: tom s.

tom s. — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 06:20:26 +0000

reifer is a good example of someone fixing control issues at high levels. after two years of posting 4+ BB/9 rates in the low minors, reifer put together an excellent 2010, with a 2.50 BB/9 rate.

it might be generous to say that chris perez has “fixed” his control issues, but he certainly improved them to the point where he was at least acceptable in his control. in QC and Springfield in 2006 and 2007, he had walk rates around 6 BB/9, followed by a brief 2007 stint in memphis with a 9 BB/9 rate in a small sample. the next year, he came back to memphis and got his walk rate down to 4.26 BB/9. since then, he’s posted walk rates around 4.5 BB/9 in the majors. not pretty, but enough to get by if you have good stuff. he’s now being done in by a diminishing K rate, but without his walk rate rising at all, so i’m not sure his issues now are primarily about his control.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 23:58:09 +0000

He was brought up because he was on the 40 man roster and it was a necessary situation. Kind of like calling up Steven Hill last year for a bit. They needed the extra arm, they probably hoped they wouldn’t have to use him but ended up doign it also. He should be fine.

By: easy

easy — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 23:39:12 +0000

Well I have to say that I’m happy to have this “spectacular mess” in my team’s system. I look forward to the box scores of his starts and agree with those who think that he has a good amount of time to harness his control and develop some secondary pitches.
What I don’t get is the tactic of taking a guy who has been universally dubbed a “spectacular mess” and is coming over from another system and jacking him up and down through a tour of four levels of his new system in less than a half a season at the first hint that he is actually getting it together. Let’s see, that would involve four new pitching coaches, four new managers, at least four new catchers, rapidly changing levels of competition, about 100 new teammates and so on.
Anyway I think that the recurrence of some of his old issues is to be expected. To me this guy has fire balling closer written all over him but I hope we’ll give him a little time in one place to get there.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 20:30:23 +0000

No his command was horrible before this year and has been good this year. He had very good control at Palm Beach and it regressed a big at Springfield and Memphis. Probably as a result of working to throw the breaking pitch more. For those who saw his debut once he calmed down after the 5 runs had scored he threw a few good sliders.

By: BigJawnMize

BigJawnMize — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 20:12:35 +0000

I dont beleve that…I tend to believe if a kid has command of a mid 90s fastball then he has the atheltic ability to command other pitches. The command of secondary offerings can develop later.

The question I really have is despite the scouting reports did Cleto ever have solid command of his fastball.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 20:09:34 +0000

I disagree that players don’t improve. If they get to a new organization, focus more on getting there body into shape and work on simplifying mechanics and setting up mental checkpoints on where they should be positioned at different stages of the delivery a change in control can happen very easily. Remember he was in High A early in the year, the reason they are advancing him is because hes progressing.

By: Rich

Rich — Tue, 26 Jul 2011 19:32:11 +0000

The thought that a 22 year old will improve his control at the upper levels is a pipe dream. Just like him getting a better breaking ball. Pitcher’s command usually stay the same, and walk rates go up when facing more disciplined hitters with a smaller stile zone. Also, you cant teach a pitcher a breaking ball. Either they can spin the ball well, or not. Jaime had a good curveball and he was taught a cutter. Same with lohse and McClellan.