The farm went 3-2, as Batavia rained out and Springfield got the night off. Check the details below!
Memphis 10, Colorado Springs 5
- Tyler Greene had another great night, as he went 2-3 with a solo-HR, double, and 2 walks
- Mark Hamilton had 2 doubles in 4 at-bats
- Shane Robinson hit 2nd and finished 3-5, all singles
- Nick Derba started behind the plate and had 3 singles
- Andrew Brown hit a grand slam in the first
- Matt Carpenter had 2 walks and a single
- Adron Chambers had 2 walks, despite going hitless
- Maikel Cleto gave up just 1 hit but walked 6 in 5 innings. He gave up 1 run and struck out 6
- Domnit Bolivar hit a solo-HR in the 1st and finished 2-4 with a hit by pitch
- Xavier Scruggs also had a homer and finished 1-3 with a walk
- Luis De La Cruz started behind the plate and was 1-3 with a double and walk
- Edgar Lara hit DH and had a double in 4 at-bats
- Arquimedes Nieto gave up 7 runs off of 11 hits and 1 walk in 5 innings. He struck out 5, threw 2 wild pitches, and had a GO:FO ratio of 6:3
- Jordan Swagerty pitched a perfect inning and struck out 2. Expect him to vault up prospect listings, as he’s completely outperformed Seth Blair
Beloit 12, Quad Cities 6 (Game One)
- Kolten Wong continues to make a great impression, as he went 3-4 with a double in the leadoff spot. He also committed his 6th and 7th error
- Jonathan Rodriguez had a very solid night with a double and homer in 4 at-bats. He had 3 hits on the night
- Michael Swinson was 2-4 with his 9th stolen base
- Mike O’Neill went 1-2 with a double and walk in the 9th spot in the order
- Colin Walsh had 2 walks and a single
- Ryan Copeland had an awful night, as he gave up 9 runs (8 earned) off of 7 hits, 4 walks, and 5 strikeouts in 4.1 innings. He gave up a double, triple, and 2 homers
Quad Cities 6, Beloit 5 (Game Two)
- Kolten Wong had another great night, as he again went 3-4 with a 2-run homer and double
- Geoffrey Klein had a 3-run shot as his sole hit in 3 at-bts
- Mike O’Neill hit in the 2 spot and went 2-3 with a walk
- Michael Swinson went 1-3
- Drew Benes lasted 3 innings and gave up 2 runs off of 4 hits, 2 walks, and 2 strikeouts
- Roberto De La Cruz, the DH, was 3-4 with a double and 3 RBI
- David Washington was 2-4 with a 2-run shot in the 3rd
- Tyler Rahmatulla went 1-4 with a double and walk
- Kolby Byrd went 1-3 with a walk
- Benjamin Freeman gave up just 1 run (0 earned) in 5 innings off of 4 hits (1 double), 2 walks, and 4 strikeouts
Entries (RSS)
Another great night for Tyler Greene & Kolten Wong!!!
I don’t see how it could possibly be any kind of great night for Kolten Wong. After all, this is a player who is clearly far, far too small to ever project in any way as a major leaguer. He doesn’t have major league size or strength, so how could he possibly be playing well? It just doesn’t make sense to me. Hell, he was, quite possibly, the worst draft pick ever made, seeing as how he’s such an undersized, non-projectable waste of a draft pick.
Is this sarcasm? The kid playing 2B for the Royals now is a whopping 5’8″ and he is solid.
Yeah, it was sarcasm. It relates to a comment mizzcards made yesterday about Tilson.
What is probably more interesting is the last sentence: “Hell, [Wong] was, quite possibly, the worst draft pick ever made, seeing as how he’s such an undersized, non-projectable waste of a draft pick.”
That sentence typifies the immediate reaction to Wong’s selection by the majority of people who post on this website (and others, like VEB).
I mean, if you didn’t like Wong’s selection on draft day, because he supposedly had “no upside” and “no projectability,” you still shouldn’t like him now. It shouldn’t be surprising for an advanced college bat to do well in Low-A.
Actually, it not only related to the Tilson comment, but the exact reaction of this particular individual upon drafting Wong. Reading the draft reaction thread now is rather comical, considering the kid has come in and done very well for himself early in his professional career.
All true. (Of course, coming to the internet and expecting self-awareness is bound to lead to disappointment.)
I just think it’s interesting how the general perception of Wong has changed based on his performance in Low A, when, in reality, nothing has changed. Even if one hated the draft pick based on perceived lack of upside/projectability/ceiling, they had to think that Wong was going to succeed in Low A as a low-ceiling, advanced college bat. In that respect, they should still be “Wong haters.”
As I showed in an earlier thread, mainstream (not short-season) A is a “normal” place for a first-round draft choice from a college program to be starting. For Wong to be tearing it up there is a good sign, not just a “normal” one.
Then again, I wasn’t one of the people ripping on this choice for size, lack of projectability, etc.
Are you sure Aaron??? I know that your an expert on everything … but I mean Mr. Wong is the perfect size to play 2B. If he were an out fielder he is definitely tooooo small.
“Please tell me this is an April fools joke or something…. a 5-10 190 guy at number 22….. What a waist of a pick… Looks like the org went all in this year with this pick… just depends on what you mean by all in…
“Wong will likely be the smallest first rounder this year”
“or which end their going all in in…. what idiots… and they are actually paid for doing this… this is their job and this is the best they can do… I’ll put 100% odds on it that a lower signing bonus has something to do with this pick… urrrrr…”
http://www.futureredbirds.net/2011/06/06/round-1-pick-22-kolten-wong/
You & Aaron can post all you want about what I posted regarding Mr. Wongs size. It said nothing about his hitting ability.
you described wong as a “waist [sic] of a pick,” and called the front office “idiots” for signing him.
nobody who read your comments at the time would draw the conclusion that you liked the pick, for any reason, including his ability to hit.
i really don’t feel the need to argue with you further. your words speak for themselves.
I still don’t like the pick… If you don’t want to argue than don’t reply with snip remarks.. Thanks
Was it 2009 Memphis Redbirds reunion night in Colorado?
kolten wong can’t be stopped…he can only be contained..is he off to the afl afer the season’s over? can’t wait to see what he can do in springfield next year
I’m wondering if they might give him some time off? The guy has played a lot of baseball this year.
They might, but if I were to put money on it I think they probably send him to the AFL if possible. Seeing how he matches up against some of the best minor league talent out there would go a long way toward giving the organisation a better idea of what his ultimate timetable might look like for moving up.
If he isn’t too worn down, I’ll bet they send him. If he’s tiring, though, they might hold him back to try and avoid any potential injury issues due to fatigue.
Hope Wong goes to the AFL, even if he is a small, weak, non-projectable waste of a draft pick. Short people got no reason to live. Just ask Freddy Patek.
I don’t know who is worse, that damned M Adams because he’s just too damned big, or that damned K Wong because he’s just too damned small. Can’t we get anything right??? Damnit. What’s up with Luhnow’s boys??? Isn’t there a template???
I liked the idea of Cox going to the AFL last year and I think Wong, if the little short no-upside sissy isn’t played out, would benefit, too. I bet if he stopped doing all those back flips, he’d have enough energy for the AFL!!!
Another place you could probably go to see a bunch of kneejerk non-analysis decrying Wong’s lack of projectability and upside, which was based in large part on his physical characteristics and size, are the threads on this website the day he was drafted.
Yeah, I remember some of that discussion. At the time, I must admit, I was hoping, as I perennially do, for a big-time high school arm. (Aren’t we always?) As the draft played out, though, the Cardinals made a prudent choice. It isn’t always about seeing how a big splash you can make.
After I thought about it for a while it made sense–a mostly-finished middle infielder with contact/on-base skills. Tell me an organization who needs that sort of asset more than the Cardinals. An actual second baseman who hasn’t been cobbled to the middle infield from from another position in an experiment hoping to defy evolutionary biology. Someone who can actually field at the keystone and isn’t a cypher on offense.
Makes sense. Here’s hoping he surprises everyone and makes quick work to St Louis.
i only like taking the high risk picks when you have multiple top round picks. When you have very few, stay conservative and get some value.
Yeah, the reason the Yankees failed to go the World Series several time during Phil Rizzuto’s career
was that little “Scooter” was just too small for them to win every year.
Yeah. Harold Henry “Pee Wee” Reese????? No wonder that guy’s career never went anywhere.
Way I see it Mike O’Neill might as well hang them up also. Hes just hitting .452 for Quad City for his first 10 games. Has a 1.153 OPS and .613 SLG but hes just 5’9″ and hes an outfielder!!! No way!!
The ball will go over his head every time!!!!!!
I’m guessing Wong will jump to Springfield to start next year? What are the odds of a Spring Training invite?
All the over the top sarcasm aside. Everybody agreed that Kolten could hit when he was drafted and that is exactly what he is doing, which is great. But the 3 hrs aren’t making me jump up and down, nor are the 5 caught stealing in 10 attempts or the 7 errors. I certainly hope he turns into Dustin Pedroia but we ain’t there yet.
While I agree that he can improve on his basestealing and fielding (which should happen with coaching and experience), I think you’re under valuing his home runs. He’s only played 38 games in the professional baseball. Over 140 games, his 3 home runs turns into 11 home runs. I’d take that right now for a 2nd baseman.
Plus, I kind of expect to see his power increase a little the next couple of years. But, if he stuck around 10 hr per year, I’d be perfectly fine with a 2nd baseman who hit like him.
In all fairness he hit his 4th homerun yesterday. While his defense and baserunning are a bit behind his hitting at this point, im glad those are the problems he is having because those can be easier fixed than if he had serious plate discipline issues. Derek Jeter had alot of errors too in the minors as did many players who ended up being very good defensive players at the major league level. Not saying Wong will be a gold glover, but he can hit and make adjustments well right now and the defense and base stealing has a good chance to improve before he makes it to the majors based on his reported work ethic which seems to be very good.
Heck, I’m just glad they’re giving him the opportunity to run aggressively now. If he can’t steal bases efficiently, he’ll eventually just be given the red light. I like the fact they’re allowing him to find out whether he can at the pro level or not, though.
The stolen base thing probably isn’t a bad idea. If nothing else it helps identify if that will become a viable part of his game or not. I know things like bunts and stolen bases are somewhat minimized in the post-apocalyptic, post-Billy Beane, sabermetric baseball world we now live in. But a lack of team speed/athleticism for the parent club is pretty glaring. It’s pretty obvious the club wants to address this (i.e. drafting of athletic players in higher rounds like Tilson and McElroy) and identify, organizationally, players who may help in that aspect.
…and trading away those highly atheletic players once they reach the majors for old veterans with grit.
Sorry couldnt resist. I really have moved on I promise.
I’ve tried to stiffen the upper lip on all that and move on. Now you’ve gone and picked at the scab.
Yes..because this happens all the time.
I will take talent over athletcisim any day.
I would rather lead the league in runs scored than athletic players.
You cannot have talent without athleticism. They’re one and the same.
I think he might be talking about the difference between like Jason Marquis and Greg Maddux.
But you’re point is valid.
I respectfully disagree with this. Talent is the ability to make good contact, have good plate discipline and generally just be a good hitter. Athleticism has to do with raw body type, speed, size and whatnot. Athleticism is important, but if it was “one and the same” with talent then the all of the Daryl Joneses of the world would be stars while the Adam Dunns would be looking for work.
Sorry, I wasn’t clear. What I meant was that you cannot have talent without athleticism. Even Matt Adams has athleticism, otherwise he wouldn’t have made it this far.
Yes…and no.
Athleticism should be view as a plus, not as a the focal point.
Just for fun:
As a 20 y/o, Dustin Pedroia had 3 home runs in his first year of pro ball (185 PAs) in A/A+. He had 2 SB and 2 CS. He did not make any errors. He had an ISO of 178 vs. Wong’s ISO of 170. Pedroia had a 19/7 BB/SO ratio – very impressive.
Wong has 4 home runs in 179 PAs, all in A ball, 5 SBs and 5 CSs, 7 errors, and a BB/SO ratio of 15/18.
Nice. He’s definitely on the right track. It’s so hard to pick the *next* Dustin Pedroia because players like that are so rare. I could see Wong becoming Pedroia, but even if he fails to reach those lofty heights I still think he’ll be an above average second baseman.
while i am optimistic on wong, i’d like to point out that dustin pedroia is at the very tip-top of his upside projection.
i have decent hope that he develops into an average/plus defender who can get on base at a .350 clip with a little line drive power on the side. that would be a huge win for us.
now, if we get the next pedroia, sure, i won’t complain.
Wong will be fine in both the basepaths and Fielding. I’ve always liked him. Would I have been jacked for another Shelby Miller type? Hell yeah, but I was still pleased with Wong.
Suppose, I’m a bit if an optimist when it comes to baseball draft picks since I find it damn near impossible to predict success to any level of certainty before their pro debuts. I Think in basketball and football its much easier. But baseball is tough. Lots of surprises and tons of disappointments.
@zuke. That’s exactly why I’m excited about next year’s draft. We should have multiple high draft picks with our free agents departing allowing the opportunity to take a big chance on someone.
Agree. Unfortuantly its supposed to be a down year. But who really knows.
however, they did say the same thing about the Kozma year and that is shaping up to be a terrible draft year (league, not team).
At 5′ 9″, Kolten will very very likely never hit 30 homers in a season—but in 38 professional games, he’s hit 13 doubles, 4 longballs, and a triple. Multiply by four, and you’ve got 152 games, with more than 50 doubles and 16 homers. Excellent power for a middle infielder, needless to say.
I wonder how many (age-appropriate) middle infielders across *all* the full-season minor leagues are posting an OPS 200 points above their league average, with superior walk-to-whiff ratios, to boot. I’m guessing it’s a reeeal short list. ;)
To answer my own question, here’s a list of age-appropriate middle infielders in each league, with an OPS 200 points above that league:
International League…no one
Pacific Coast League…no one
Eastern League…nobody
Southern League…zilch
Texas League…zip
California League…Jose Altuve
Carolina League…zero
Florida State League…nada
South Atlantic League…null set
Midwest League…Ronaldo Torreyes and (almost) Kolten Wong
I misspoke slightly about Kolten, as his OPS is “only” 185 points about the MWL average. Still very impressive, and obviously very rare.
It seems that there are a number of pintsized excellent hitting 2b’s that have surfaced just this season….Giovotella KC, Altuve HOUST, Wong STL and Torreyes CN. Those kind of things run in funny cycles.
wong may get better at stealing bases with experience but the pitchers and catchers are also going to get better too, What the 5 caught stealing says to me is that he does not have great speed because in the lower minors I would think that most runners that steal at this level do it on speed alone. Which pretty much confirms the scouting report on him before he was drafted. The four home runs in 179 PA’s is the most hopeful sign to me. Players can develop more power but they are not going to get any faster. I do realize that speed is not the only component that goes into stealing bases though. Heck, Theriot has several years of over 20 bases and I sure Wong is faster than him.
How many of the CSs were busted hit and runs? How many were pickoffs? How many were bad jumps? How many were superior defensive plays that would have caught Vince Coleman? 5 CSs don’t say much standing on their own about Wong’s speed, baserunning ability, or even his ability to steal bases.
You’re getting at it.
Speed is only one component. Pujols isn’t fast at all, yet he never seems to get thrown out when he decides to steal. There’s a lot of smarts and planning that goes into stealing. Wasn’t Gregg Jeffries a great basestealer? He can’t be any faster than Wong.
Nevertheless, I don’t expect Wong’s greatest attribute to be stealing bases. But his baserunning overall should be a strength.
Guys, if you look at our Major League team now they hardly steal bases. That is the major talk of MLB.com. That the Cardinals organization is not aggressive in getting players to steal. Look at our minor league teams now. They hardly steal bases, so don’t blame the players in this case, blame the coaching staff for not pushing for steals. They control the game.
How do the Cardinals rank across the board in stealing bases?
I would have to look at all the other teams to give you that ranking. I can only tell you what I heard one night on MLB and they said that the Cardinals lack on base stealing and if you look up there minor league teams you can tell base stealing is not too much there priority.
I guess what I’m getting at is, how much less do the Cardinals steal than other teams? Honestly, I don’t see a ton of stealing in mlb anyway unless you’ve got a real burner. Maybe my perception is a bit skewed because I primarily watch Cardinal games and Yadi has some effect on the stealing.
But, I’m just trying to figure if they’re that far off from the rest of the pack or if it’s really kind of a moot point and someone on mlb.com just wants to sound like they just discovered the greatest mystery of the universe.
Btw, who on mlb.com is voicing these concerns? I don’t see anything on the main page. Is it in the forums?
Another part of the problem is that that speady guy tends to be a weak armed outfielder. Sometimes center if he has a passable arm. However, LF is usually big stick guys anymore so these guys end up as 5th outfielders.
If you have great speed, great arm and get on base, I would love to have that guy. But they are pretty rare. So i will take a less speedy guy who can get on base and hit home runs.
Here is an interesting discussion.
Say Allen Craig can post a line of .280/.350 and hit 15-20 home runs.
Say you have a speedy guy who can hit .280/.340 and steal 20-30 baseses with a decent ration.
Who would you rather have? And who would be cheaper?
I think I’d rather have Allen Craig since the imaginary speedy guy is still relying more on players to drive him in and doesn’t do as much in the way of driving in players in front of him unless they’re just as speedy.
But, that’s my amateur-ish opinion.
And I agree with that as well. And I think the Allen Craigs of the world have choked out many of those guys.
I’d rather have Vince Coleman & Ricky Henderson
Seriously? Henderson in is a HOF. Do you really consider Henderson are regular speed guy?
In that case, I will take Stan Musial.
As far as vince coleman, I will pass. Vince had a 77% stolen base percentage which is great. But hardly repeatable now days without turf.
I will take an allen craig and you can keep your .325 obl and 70% stolen baserate guy.
The other question is where do you put vince? I am much happier with a Matt Holliday bopper in left.
Last year, out of the top 20 NL stolen base leaders, only 1 guy scored more than 100 runs. And that was carlos Gonzolez who hit 36 home runs.
Guys who did score 100 runs (besides the sluggers)…high obp. Interesting that Rickie weeks, Jason Werth, Aubrey huff, Dan Uggla, Brandon Phillips and martin prado all managed to score 100 runs without stealing more than 17 bases.
Again, not really seeing the value of the stolen base.
I would have Vince Coleman play CF… I think these type of guys as in Henderson, Coleman, types… are necessary for lead off hitters or your 1 and 2 hitters in the lineup….
Henderson yes.
But what makes them necessary?
I think guys who can get on base is more important than guys who can steal bases. For instnace, in my earlier post the guys who get on base score more runs than the base stealers.
They currently lead the league in runs scored, so not sure what I would really complain about. Steals carry more value in fantasy league anymore.
As far as stolen bases, there is a small window in a player’s career that makes it worth the risk. If you have veteran clubs, you are probably not going to be base stealers.
A young, upstarting building team will have more basestealers.
Yeah, I don’t get it either. Like you said, they’re first in runs, first in BA, first in hits, second in doubles (1st is Houston…..go figure), fifth in home runs, first in rbi (so they’re apparently hitting guys in that are on base), third in walks, first in obp, first in slugging, and first in ops (obviously).
Now, yes, they are tied for last in SB with 39 (tied with the Cubs) and next in line would be Atlanta (47), Milwaukee (66), and Cincinnati (67) so there is a pretty big drop off.
But, I still don’t see where a bunch of stolen bases would make the offense any better. Actually, it might hurt it some.
Speaking of middle infielders and stolen bases I don’t know what to think about what the Cardinals’ current SB leader is doing in Memphis. Tyler Greene is simply on fire with the bat. Ordinarily I’m very skeptical of 28 year olds suddenly finding success in AAA but this is getting hard to ignore. The strikeouts remain high but a 1.082 ops from a shortstop gets me hoping that he’s actually got something figured out.
Should we fade out of the race I hope that Greene will get a chance to show if he’s for real in September if only for advertising some trade value.
FREE TYLER GREENE!!
FWIW – Greene’s last 90 AB’s (post AAA all-star game) he is striking out at 30% clip (higher than his historical norm). Of course he is batting .378 with an 1.192 OPS. However his BABIP is over .500 (his BABIP for the year at Memphis is .442) even though his LD rate is only in the low 20% range.
He’s Adam Dunn!!!
Pre-appendicitis Adam Dunn….and without all those pesky walks.
Looking at the success Greene is having at AAA one has to wonder why he can’t develop in STL.
Lynn got hurt who did they bring up, A, Dickson, B, Valdes C Cleto D, Marte E, Fick F, Todd G, some other 40 year old lefty.
But i like stolen bases