With 5 days to go until the signing deadline, here are the Cardinals unsigned picks and a line or two about each.
Round 2 – Charlie Tilson, OF, Ill HS - I’m pretty sure the Charlie Tilson deal gets done on the deadline day for the Cardinals. They would not have drafted him in the 2nd if they did not think they could get a deal done.
Round 14 – Kevin Medrano, 2B, Missouri State - Medrano is a junior, so that could be the hold up as the Cardinals wait until the deadline for the ability to offer an overslot deal.
Round 20 – Aramis Garcia, C, Fla HS - Best as I can tell, this is Garcia on twitter, if you are into that sort of thing. No word on his signing either. But, he would need a high overslot deal to sign from the 20th round. Garcia has been keeping busy playing for the La Ley Legends in the Connie Mack World Series in Farmington, NM.
Round 21 – Chris Kirsch, LHP, Pa JC - Kirsch has been keeping busy in the Delware County baseball league playing for the Springfield Colonials. Kirsch took the loss in the deciding game in the first round of the playoffs in late July. He has been told by a Cardinals scout that he would have to wait until at least late July for an offer. This one will probably go down to the deadline as the Cardinals are getting their overslot deals in order.
Round 22 – Justin Kamplain, LHP, Ala HS - Kamplain has said that Alabama is his dream school and we have had no word whether he signs or not as he decides between an offer from the Cardinals and a scholarship to the school. I would guess that Kamplain decides to go to school.
Round 26 – Brett Graves, RHP, Mo HS - Graves has said he is going to accept his scholarship and attend Missouri instead of going pro. Obviously, something could change at the 11th hour, but Graves is more than likely going to remain unsigned.
Round 29 – Chris Matulis, LHP, Central Florida - Matulis is a junior in eligibility because he sat out the 2011 season after transferring from LSU. Matulis is already 21. But, he has a decision between staying at the school that he sat out a year to attend and pitch for or go pro with the Cardinals.
Round 40 – Kyle Arnsberg, C, Texas CC - Considering Arnsberg redshirted at Arizona State, then went to a community college last year, one would think he took the path of least resistance to be eligible for the draft again and to become a pro baseball player. He’s the son of the current Astros pitching coach.
Round 42 – Cody Poarch, RHP, Tenn CC
Round 43 – Chris Costantino, RHP, Tenn CC - No word on either of these two teammates who, to be honest, I’m surprised that they are still unsigned and I never really considered them to be hard sign draft picks. It is possible they are unhappy with their draft slot and offer and are hoping to try again next season to get drafted higher and get more money.
Round 45 – Cooper Moseley, 2B, Ala CC - Moseley, if signed, will be an overslot selection, so I’m not surprised that he still remains unsigned with 5 days left in the signing period. He did make a pre-draft visit to Busch Stadium and based on his very driven history from when he was 10 years old, I would imagine he ends up signing.
Round 46 – Chadwich Kaalekahi, C, Hawaii HS - Kaalekahi is another overslot selection, so if the Cardinals want to sign him, they will have to toss out the large signing bonus in the next few days.
Round 47 – David Schmidt, RHP, Mo HS - Schmidt is a local product, but has a commitment to Stanford, which as the Cardinals know, is difficult to get a player out of. The Cardinals will play the hometown card over and over again with a big signing bonus behind it, and I really don’t know if that is enough to get the deal done.
Round 48 – Brock Asher, OF, Hawaii HS - Asher is another Hawaiian HS player and I’m in the dark on this guy as I was on draft day. Information is very thin on him online without even trying to find signing rumors.
Round 50 – Tyler Sibley, 2B, Texas State - Sibley is a junior, so it will take an overslot deal from the 50th round to get him out of his senior year at Texas State.
At this point it seems like the Cardinals treated the 40-50th rounds as a “flyer” round as they got the rights to a bunch of guys to see if they could sign them. Certainly not a bad idea, but we will know a lot more about the draft class in 5 days because most of these overslot guys would add a lot to the Cardinals system.
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Did we get our 5th rd pick Sam G. signed then?
Yes, Sam G just signed.
Thanks glad he is on board, would think he should be a fast mover through the system.
is there any word yet on his assignment? I figure it’ll be GCL, but just curious.
He might not pitch this year if he has been off for 2 months. However, if he does, it will most likely be Batavia. He is from an advanced college program. Those guys seldom go to the GCL or Appy. Gus from smaller college programs do but not front line starters from major college programs.
Yup, he’s confirmed with Batavia, but they are going to limit his innings, mostly in relief for the rest of the year.
Article posted over at cardstalk on Gaviglio.
http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110810/SPORTS/108100330
Tilson of course…But the other guy I would like to see sign is garcia.
Call me pessimistic, but I don’t see a deal getting done with Tilson.
I think thats pessimistic. I can’t remember the last top pick the cards didn’t sign.
The last top Cardinals draft pick that didn’t sign was:
2010: Austin Wilson
2007: Kyle D Russell
I don’t think 13th round is considered a top pick for wilson, top player but not top pick
A 4th rounder 4 years ago and a 13th rounder….kind of proves my point.
I figure pretty much any high school player drafted after the 25th round or so is damn near impossible to sign. No matter where they have college offers.
I know pro teams can offer college scholarships to players in lieu of them giving up their scholarship to college (along with their signing bonus), but I’m not real sure they’d do that for 40th round-ish type players unless they were really trying to make a steal but that doesn’t guarantee admission into Stanford or Vanderbilt or Alabama some other major college where many of them will be going straight out of high school.
What’s the pure monetary value of a scholarship to Stanford, including tuition, room and board, books, and meals? $50,000 a year?
That’s aside from the baseball value of three (or possibly four) years of development and visibility in a high-profile college program.
Then you add in the academic value of an education at one of the top schools in the world.
It’s hard to imagine that a kid who put in the work on the field and in the classroom to get that scholarship would give it up for less than a half million. Even that might be selling short.
Agreed. The opportunity to attend (and experience) college is what is lost. Especially a great institution like Stanford. I would imagine there is no getting back into Stanford.
Just in case you are not aware, college baseball generally does not offer full rides because they only have 11.7 to spread over an entire squad. A team has to offer a minimum of 25% and 27 players have to be on scholarship, so there isn’t a lot of room. it’s possible to be offered a full ride, but it isn’t common. The highest I have heard of is 80%, and to be honest, I’m not sure that didn’t include academic money (which if the player qualifies can be used to get around the 11.7 since it isn’t “athletic”)
Interesting! I didn’t know that.
Missouri State offered Jordan Shipers a full ride, and a few years before that, another little lefty named Barratt. Both signed at the very last minute.
You’re right in that it is rare to see a kid be on full scholarship straight out of high school. The new 25% mandate limits the ability to do that even more than before.
Any guesses out there for Tilson? I’ll guess he signs for $950 K.
I wouldn’t give him much more than that. Sure I want to sign him but he is not a sure fire first round talent and doens’t deserve mid-first round money. I’ll take the comp pick if he doesn’t want to sign.
Jsut FYI, that “money in liu of scolarship” only gets collected on if the guy decides to try college after a career in baseball. Teams often agree to it knowing most won’t enroll.
Correct…you all remember Jim Lindeman (right?)? He finished college with a degree paid for the
Birds .. a PE teaching degree and now is a teacher. BTW he is great guy….never know he was
AVS replacement???
Are you sure? I thought the value of the “scholarship” lessened with each level the player moved up. Lindeman played in the mlb. I was under the impression that by then, the scholarship was gone.
Most every contract has a separate “college fund” on top of the bonus, and is based on the school they were going to attend.
The Stanford type kids can have a college allotment of upwards of 150k. That part isn’t reported with their bonus, but still costs MLB clubs quite a pretty penny.
I think Tilson won’t sign unless the Cards meet his number. He and his family certainly don’t need the money. I’d bet his father clears 7 figures a year or close to it.
What does he do?
Attorney; name partner in a well-respected employment litigation firm in Chicago.
I look at it differently. If I’ve got lots of money,I help my son pursue his dream. Chances are he wont get more than a million if he goes to college and his best chance of making it to the majors is to sign now. If I’ve got money, I can help him go back to college later.
I don’t have nearly as much money as the elder Tilson, but I do have two college-age sons, and I must say, if either had been potential second-round draft choices for the Cardinals, I’d have followed the path that CC describes. You can always go back to college.
True, but you can always go back in the draft later too. It’s not like going to college precludes following his “dream.”
However, there’s a pretty good chance you might go lower in the draft. 2nd round is pretty high and there’s not much room to move up plus the risk of injury. A lot can go wrong in 3 years that might keep you from ever having that chance again. College will always be there.
True. Btu a second round leaves you as high priority.
In 4 years you can be a later draft pick and have a much harder climb to the majors. If you are a higher pick, you get more growing room.
I think there are those who undervalue the experience of college. Without a shadow of a doubt, I would be a different person if I hadn’t gone to college.
Being an 187 y/o athlete and getting to experience college, gain that education and maturity is something that’s hard to place a monetary value on.
Call me crazy, but it would take a lot of money to buy me out of college. After taxes, and considering the differences in earnings power, and the likelihood of actually going back to college as a 24 y/o or whatever, I can see why kids want to go no matter what.
The money supremely talented players give up to attend college can never be regained. College is great but life experience is life experience. Playing in the bus leagues is different than being a college athlete, but they’ll never have another chance to get that money.
On the other hand, I do agree a 187-year-old student/athlete is priceless. :)
I really don’t see any of the guys signing… Looks to me like the Cards to a spin on rounds 40 thru 50 because none of the HS guys will sign there. Also the one in the 20 – 30 round that are unsigned probably aren’t signing. Tilson 90% probably won’t sign.
I worry the Cards will sign Tilson. I would rather Tilson goes to college and we get a compensation pick next draft.
The Cards are not going to be offering big bonuses to college juniors. If not signed by now, Medrano must not be signing.
I would be really happy if they could sign Kirsch, one of the Walters juco pitchers, and one of the Hawaiian lads.
It would be a pleasant surprise if they could land Schmidt, Graves, or Garcia. Seems unlikely.
I BELIEVE YOU ARE CORRECT
Garcia, Graves, and Schmidt are blue chip prospects. The Cards knew on draft day that it would take big bucks to land any of them. They were drafted on the off chance they might sign. They know the money will still be there 3 years from now, so why sign now? We would be prepared to give them big bucks or would not have selected them. But if we thought Schmidt would actually sign, we would have selected him before the 47th round. The round indicates we did not think he would sign.
Kamplain got a scholarship offer from Alabama near to the draft. We probably had hoped to sign him, until UAlabama came calling.
There are precedents for the Cards signing kids from the bottom of the draft late in the summer. Examples are Additon, Siegrist, Russell. They might sign one or two again.
Agree.
There is that slight chance a guy will sign with his hometown favorite team. See Mclellan.
Just found an article where we offered Garcia 350k. That’s a ton of money for a 20th round pick but he said the money just wasn’t there. He wanted mroe.
http://fiusm.com/2012/02/20/garcia-turns-down-350000-to-earn-a-starting-spot/
@ Mrs. TLR
I disagree. Next year is supposed to be a weak draft. The reason why a Tilson was available that late was becasue the amount onf HS and college tallent available.
Plus, next year the cards will probably have more picks than this year. Not sure I see the benefit of picking a guy in the second round. Plus, you HAVE to sign that guy or loose it. So you have to be selective on who you use it on.
If last year was a terrible draft year, then I might think about it. But its actually the exact opposite.
Also, it’s looking like we might have a LOT of picks in that range next year. Assuming we re-sign Pujols, we can probably assume Jackson and Berkman are both going and will net arbitration picks. Carpenter will net picks if they don’t come to an agreement with him, which is possible if Pujols gets mega-bucks. Dotel is not hugely likely to be offered arbitration, but he’s another outside chance of netting a pick.
In this scenario, it’s very likely that we don’t have very much money to spend on an unprotected 2nd round pick next year, and will basically end up with a pretty crappy prospect if we don’t sign Tilson.
I think Tilson ends up signing for a low seven-figure deal. I’m going to guess $1.1m. I heard he wants 1.5, and I imagine the Cards would’ve been offering in the 800k-900k range to start off.
If the Cards do not exercise their option on Carpenter, he is free to leave and the Cards would not receive compensation next June.
Nope they can decline the option and still offer arbitration and get 2 picks if he leaves
Arbitration is for players with 3 to 6 years experience, not long time vets like Chris Carpenter. I do not recall an ML team offering a great veteran arbitration. Can you think of a specific example?
If the Cards choose to decline their right to the services of Carpenter in 2012, he becomes a free agent. His current value will not be a lot lower than his option contract. I have not heard of any team turning down a $15MM option on a guy, only to immediately right turn around and offer $10MM. I do not know if it is against the labor agreement, but its a mixed message that the Commissioner and Union would generally not like. In MLB, a team honors the option year salary or decides to say goodbye.
Consider Matt Morris. He finished a 3 year deal with the Cards for $36MM. We made him an offer, maybe it was about 2 more years for $11MM. He went to the Giants for 3 years at $27MM, IIRC. In this case, we made an offer and got compensation picks.
This could happen with Lance Berkman potentially.
However, the difference in the situation with Carpenter is the Cards did not reject Morris by declining an option year. They made a good faith effort to retain him after his earlier contract ran its full course. They did not decide to terminate the contract earlier than its full extent.
Greg maddux is one who actually accepted it. Every year you have to offer type a or type b free agents to get the compensation picks for their decling, their is also the risk of them accepting and gettin a big pay raise. They can decline the option of carpenter and offer arbitration where he can accept and make a bunch for one year, or he can decline and maybe sign with another team and we get the picks.
Declining our final year of Carp’s contract is like getting a divorce. We are not going to turn around and offer him an engagement ring (a new contract). The player’s union would frown on such corporate misbehavior. We either will pay him what he we agreed to pay him for 2012 or he is free.
If he was only a type B FA we might be able to do a wink agreement where he declines arbitration. As a type A it hurts his open market value so it wont happen.
I was just saying it was possible, because you said we couldn’t get compensation for declining the option. This is a situation we could no matter how unlikely. I hope we sign him to a couple year deal cuz he’d be good for shelby miller when he comes up.
Last I heard they are $1M apart and I think the Birds should walk on that.
I cant understand how anyone thinks that the kids turning down large contracts now is the best decision. There is zero garauntee that the money will be there 3 years from now…but I can garauntee that college will be.
If you have a large offer you take the money and see.
BTW, I have seen Tilson play. He is a reach as a 2nd round talent. No way in hell I pay him first round money. Let him walk.
Tilson is high risk. Snow belt high school. Not toolsy. I’d rather get a compensation pick to try again next year.
What areyou talking about he has very good speed, isn’t that a tool? He also has a good hit skill.
I don’t know about the other picks, but I think Tilson would be wise to sign now. With all due respect to the Illini and coach Dan Hartleb, the second does not generate high round picks and I can’t envision Tilson’s draft status getting any higher than it currently is after three years playing in the frigid Big Ten.
CORRECTION
With all due respect to the Illini and coach Dan Hartleb, the *program* does not generate many high round picks and I can’t envision Tilson’s draft status getting any higher than it currently is after three years playing in the frigid Big Ten.
We are worrying about a 2nd round pick but most teams are still worrying about their top picks. Best i can tell 30 of the top 43 aren’t signed yet. We should be thankful we got Wong signed. Best I can tell, only 3 higher picks have signed.
Cards signed Tilson (2nd Rdr) to $1.275M (roughly 2.5 times the recommended slot) per Callis. I estimated it would take at least twice the slot to get him signed so this is about what I was thinking.
Doing some research on how the guys that didn’t sign are faring….
Aramis Garcia is hitting .278 with 5 hr’s and 28 RBI’s.
David Schmidht is a bullpen guy at Stanford 3-1 with about a 2.70 ERA. He gave up 6 runs in .1 inning. Without that performance he would be at 1.30 ERA.
Brett Graves is struggling some he’ 1-5 with about a 5 ERA.
Chris Kirsch- didn’t sign with the Cardinals as the money was too far apart again and he was disspointed he fell 8 rounds from the previous year. He committed to VCU but decided to stay at Lackawanna college. He’s lights out this year there 8-1 with 15k’s per 9 innings. 93 in 60 some innings. 12 starts and only 12 earned runs given up. If his stuff is up then I’m assuming he will be drafted much higher this year.
Chris Matulus- is still at UCF is 6-0 with a 3.23 era. He’s a 6-5 left handed pitcher and a SR so he may be a redraft by the Cardinals this year, as they wanted him before and can save money on him this year possibily.
Kevin Medrano is hitting .383 but has only walked 4 timse this year.
Justin Kamplin-is 1-4 with a 3.71 ERA and has struck out 46 hitters in 63 innings…