It was a relatively quiet night as the farm went 1-2. The big news on the night was the Cardinals coming to terms with second-round pick Charlie Tilson for $1.275 million.
Maikel Cleto got the start, so check out how he did below!
- Tyler Greene went 2-4 with a walk and stole 2 bases. He has 22 stolen bases on the year between Memphis and St. Louis and has only been caught stealing once. He also has a 1.051 OPS in 182 at-bats in the PCL. I personally would like to see him get regular playing time in the majors at 2nd base, but the powers that be obviously don’t share that sentiment.
- Shane Robinson led off and went 1-4 with a walk
- Mark Hamilton hit cleanup and finished 2-4 with a double
- Tony Cruz also went 2-4, which were both singles
- Pete Kozma went 2-3 with a double and walk. He committed his 10th error with Memphis
- Adron Chambers hit a pinch-hit 3-run homer
- Maikel Cleto pitched 6 shutout innings and struck out 5 batters. He walked 3 batters, which isn’t great, but he gave up just 3 hits to compensate.
- David Kopp made his AAA debut this season and struck out 1 over a scoreless inning
- Jess Todd pitched a perfect inning out of the pen
Corpus Christi 4, Springfield 2
- Jose Garcia led off and finished 2-5 with his 15th stolen base
- Ryan Jackson also went 2-5, both singles. He also committed two errors (16 & 17). His ISO is 3rd for starting shortstops in the Texas League. I’d still love to see a more detailed view on his defense, but he’s looked really good in the few times I’ve been able to see him.
- Matt Adams hit his 28th homer, a solo-shot, and finished 1-4. As reported earlier, he’s staying in Springfield, so let’s root him on to 30! Woo!!!!! Ok, moving on…
- Jermaine Curtis had 3 singles in 4 at-bats
- Arquimedes Nieto walked 3, gave up 6 hits (1 homer), 3 runs (2 earned), and struck out 4 in 5 innings
- Nick Longmire was 1-4 with a walk and his 8th stolen base on the season. Longmire has followed up a solid June and July with subpar numbers in August. He has a K% of just under 37% in 9 games this month.
- Chris Edmondson hit a solo-shot in the 5th and finished 2-4 with a walk
- Jonathan Rodriguez also had a solo-homer and went 2-5 for the game. He committed his 18th error for Quad Cities
- Joey Bergman walked twice and was 1-3
- Geoffrey Klein walked an impressive 3 times on the day despite going hitless in 2 at-bats
- Drew Benes gave up 4 runs on 5 hits (2 triples) in 4.1 innings. He struck out 3 batters, hit 2, and walked none
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Good news about Tilson. Does anyone know if Aramis Garcia signed?
$1.275M is serious coin. hope kolten isn’t annoyed.
Cardinals signed Chris Costantino(43rd pick) according to this article
http://seviercountynews.com/mike-williams/walters-state-graduate-signs-major-league/28729
Man 1.275M for a 2nd rounder? I hope he develops a modicum of power and turns out to be a stud, otherwise this is a drastic overpay.
Josh Bell for 5M!?!?!? Pirates aren’t scared
I realize it isn’t really part of the same budget, but….compared to the $3.3MM being paid to Erriot this year, the $1.275 is money well invested. It is time the Cardinals get a manager that is willing to give prospects a legitimate shot in the majors instead of always demanding scraptastic talent-challenged veterany goodness….besides being just as (or more) productive, it is also cheaper.
Didn’t realize that Pujols, Skip, Freese, Molina, Garcia, Jay, Salas, Motte, Boggs, Rasmus weren’t talened.
Care to refine your “give prospects a shot” statment?
Selective memories for the TLR haters…
Yep. He’s played a TON of young guys over the last few years. Glad the system is finally turning out some talented players too.
I think that was more accurate. Jocketty neglected the farm system and that was his one failing. Too bad it was a big one for a small market team.
The Cardinals are in no universe a “small market team”. We’re in the top half of attendance and payroll every single year.
There are at least 20 teams that play in TV markets bigger than St. Louis, putting them in the bottom third in terms of market size. Doesn’t that by definition make them small market? I know they draw well and spend more like a mid to large market team, but doesn’t the local media package account for more revenue than attendance? That was at least my understanding, I could be wrong about where the money comes from.
“but doesn’t the local media package account for more revenue than attendance?”
The answer to this is “no.”
Indeed. I couldn’t find the exact numbers disclosed anywhere, but even if we generously assume FSMW is shelling out around $30 million annually, that would still fall short of attendance revenue.
Ture, but really doesn’t mean jack when it comes to media contracts.
Attendance is no longer the main revenue stream for teams. Haven’t been for years.
The revenue generated is impacted by maket size, not team success.
You got some sort of link for that? I’m fairly sure that’s incorrect. Assuming 76 home games a year, with 45,000-ish coming to each game, even if each fan only spends $50 in total each game (incl. tickets, concessions etc, which is probably an under-estimate I’d have thought), that comes to >$170m per year in attendance revenue. I find it hard to believe the media contracts are worth that much.
Unfortunatly, i don’t think those contracts are disclosed.
Media accounts for more than just tv.
Internet, Radio, Satalite Radio, MLB extra innings, Independant contracts with the satalite networks inaddition to The national contracts for Fox, WS, and all star game plus local tv contracts.
I put ticket sales at around $100 million. The problem with ticket sales though is its not bankable. A bad season, and it dropps. A couple of bad seasons and its really low.
I will take a shot at that…
While some of these guys were given a shot, there is a major point to a mismanagement of them. Garcia has been babied in an unblieveable way by Tony this season…leaving him out to pitch when he is gettign smoked and pulling him early when he gets in a little trouble in others. We almost ble the 06′ series by allowing izzy to continue to blow games and let wano pitch the 9th. Same can be said this year with Salas (who tony didn’t even let make the team out of spring training, instead he let miguel batista). freese was basically given a startign spot by mgmt not by Tony (and that started for an interested Spring that season if you recall). Boggs was erenously sent to AAA earlier in the season. Rasmus was traded for pennies on the dollar as a 24 year old (i believe wano was only 24 when he DEBUTED and the Ray’s Desmond Jennings is also only 24 currently). I wouldn’t say 2.5 years is alegitimate shot when you are as young, cheap and taleneted as colby.
Skip and Jay are prospect that have been asked to do more than what their skill set would allow. So he gives guys better chances that shouldn’t…
We signed theroit and forced out Ryan (and basically greene). We mismanaged reyes a couple years back to the point where he totally fell off the map (not that it is all tony/mgmt, but it sure doesn’t give them a blue star). The trade for Mark DeRosa giving up Perez…he didn’t exactly have a legit chance. I’ll give you Molina and pujols (even though it seemed as though tony really didn’t want him to make the club an donly did because of Bobby Bo)….
Its nto just abotu giving them a shot, but giving them roles that best fit their skill sets and the team as a whole….
Just thought I would throw it out that I am a TLR fan of his career, but think he has mismanaged certian things and it should be discussed/debated. And it also goes to show you need an org that works togeather and doesn’t have power struggles (look at how well boston and tampa operate).
I agree with some of what you are saying, but I am not sure about the “mismanaged” part.
Brendan Ryan is never going to be anything more than a Izturus. Anthony Reyes refused to listen to Duncan, who said he would never live to his potential and got hurt…Using those guys as examples of “mismanage” instnaces is hardly shining examples.
I do think you have a valid point on the the organization not being on the same page, but I think its much better now…or at least improving.
Brendan Ryan is far, far better than Theriot (and likely Izturis also) and we basically swapped the two, gained Cleto, and ended up paying more money for the privilege.
I agree that that is was a costlier move.
Disagree on being better than Izturis.
Think how great tony could be if he also had the ability to manage via hindsight.
First you compaling about babying, then complain about leaving them out too long. Kind of a contracition.
The cards actually had a competing team in spring training. You seriously pass on all veterans and hope from the best from the farm? That is hardly a winning decision. I seriously have to question your baseball knowledge that thinks having Berkman on the team is a bad thing. Afterall, you did just state that winning teams should forgoe proven veterns in favor of youth.
So Tony runs the team, but was “forced” to play David Freese? If anything, Tony showed extreme patince with Freese.
Boggs had options and was inconsistatn. Again, no problem there.
The book has yet to be written on rasmus, but you want to consider rasmus a success in the majors…Prime example of not being able to use facts to back your case.
So rayes was mismanaged? Interesting. IF Tony does something right, its not his credit. If a player does something wrong its his fault. I give the bebefit of the doubt here since Reyes did nothing after the cards.
The trade for Derossa…Interesting. So if a team ever trades a young player, despite the reason, its becasue the manager can’t deal with young playes. Interesting spin.
Actually, that exactly ture on Bobby bo. Polonco was really blocking Pujols, not Bobby bo.
I actually thought (and still think) the DeRosa trade was fine. Perez and Todd basically haven’t amounted to anything.
All that said, this “The book has yet to be written on rasmus, but you want to consider rasmus a success in the majors…Prime example of not being able to use facts to back your case.” is simply wrong. rasmus has been an above-average center fielder in his career SO FAR. He may not reach his potential, but he’s already been a “success”.
True. I agree with your point that from that stand point he is a “success”.
“Perez and Todd basically haven’t amounted to anything.”
…except that Chris Perez is an All-Star closer. HA!
Helluva game for Cleto. Kozma has two less errors than Matt Carpenter? That’s a little surprising to me, considering Kozma piled up the errors in the lower levels…
Has Brown just lost it or what? He has had a terrible second half.
Andrew Brown is a terrible defender
I didn’t realize Jackson had so many errors.
I’m wondering. Is Jackson kind of a poor man’s version of Starlin Castro, but doesn’t quite his as well?
Can we please stop having this argument? Some of us don’t like TLR. Some do. Deal with it. Stop rehashing the same argument over and over
Agree. I jus wish the haters could actually put vorth legit arguments.
If you say you don’t like him and think he is an A-hole, I have no problem with that. In fact, I would probably agree because he probably is.
However, if you are going to attack a move/decision, I just wish people could provide some substance for debate.
For insntance, The cards let Ludwick go becasue they had a faith in Jay/Craig. That shows confidence in young players. Then Berkman became available and the cards signed him. Yet people still are vaguely bashing him for not playing young guys…Don’t know about you, but that move seems to have worked out.
The latest is Greene. He has had plenty of chances. So to say he has never been given a chance is not correct. Now if people want to argue that Greene has worked back and “Earned” another chance, then I would agree with that. Furcal, which I still like, is on the clock. If he doesn’t start hitting by the end of the month Greene should be given the opportunity.
I think VolsnCards5 was talking about you, Zuke.
I know. That was kind of the point.
Complain about LaRussa, then Complain that people respond…
Then stick with that point, rather than using it as another opportunity to rehash another rebuttal.
No thank you.
Seriously, The tony supporters are really rebuttle posters. You rarely, if ever, see the Tony supporters starting threads about how great tony does, or every little move he makes that works out.
So back to the point….Don’t throw out baseless criticism.
Zuke, nobody in this thread started by Vols was throwing out baseless criticism, yet you used it to rehash your “rebuttal” again. There was nothing to rebut, but it didn’t stop you.
It takes two to argue, and *both sides* are part of the problem. When people are asking to stop the argument, they’re talking to both sides.
Not really and that is my point.
People want to throw out their shots at LaRussa and don’t want anybody to call them on it.
Point being, don’t start threads about the argument…just don’t start the argument.
We’re tired of this argument Zuke.
Don’t really care.
If somebody says something that isn’t true, or invalid, I will say somthing. I guess if you don’t want to hear the argument, be able to back up your point.
imo I think some people just can’t stand success! we’ve got one of the best managers in modern time and somebody isn’t pleased. Give me a break!!
Agreed. You don’t have to like his method, but for the most part, you cannot argue his success.
Jermaine Curtis now has a .871 OPS and is age appropriate for AA. No one cares?
Yet he still hasn’t been able to beat out Jose Garcia as the regular 2B?
I’d care more if he wasn’t listed as a DH. Good walk/K numbers and obp but they don’t seem to see enough about him to give him regular playing time or to develop him at a position.
Geez I hate a day without a Rahmatulla.
I was thinking the same thing…about Taveras.
The good thing is that both of them should see post season action. It’ll shorten the winter withdrawl a little bit.
Glad (and not that surprised) they came to a deal with Tilson. I thought about $1.1m would be the final figure. A couple of extra hundred k really isn’t much in the context of an MLB franchise’s operating costs on the year.
The Tilson signing is a good thing. The draft this year was a little different in that there seemed to be a few more risks on high school players in it than in most past years for the Cardinals. This left a few more of the selections unsigned past the 08-15 deadline than in recent years. Now that the overall minor league cupboards aren’t quite so bare, I suppose this was an emphasis the organization felt it could attempt.
-I’ve been a Tyler Greene for a long time, but he has had chances in St. Louis and he just blows up. His talent on paper is borderline “elite” but it seems like when he plays in a stadium w/ that third tier he panics. I do think he can have successful career in the Majors, but not in St. Louis w/ 40K people in the stands and TLR as a manager. If he goes to a place like KC or even Tampa Bay, i think he could excel.
-Someone please tell me why Shane Robinson keeps taking ABs from Chambers?
-You gotta like what Cleto has done this year. Pitching over 118 innings; getting a K per inning pitched. Jumped 3 levels (4 if you count the blowups at Busch). I think everyone agrees that his stuff and delivery screams a relief role. Hopefully a spring w/ DD can take him to that next level. Same goes w/ Kopp, hopefully his injury problems are behind him and he go out and dominate in the bullpen.
-I also have noticed Curtis’ production this season, hit for a good average but no power. But you look at pictures of him and he looks stacked. He looks like a mini-Ron Gant. I kind of wish they would move him around and groom him to be a plus utlity player.
Curtis is a below average infielder. This year he has played 2b,3b,lf,rf. He looks fine in lf and OK at 3b.
Since Solano has been sent down he is getting the playing time over Garcia at 2b.
Solano was getting playing time because Garcia was on the disabled list, which is why Solano was sent down. Garcia is now active again and again starting at second base.
Garcia has only started one game since he came off the disabled list and that was last night. Hopefully he does stay in the line up. Solano looked like he wasn’t happy to be Springfield in the games I saw in the last home stand. His defense was very lazy looking and probably cost Springfield at least one game.
Apropos of nothing, here’s the line on Oscar Taveras for July/August:
.365/.430/.588
Unreal production for an 18/19-year-old in the Midwest League (distinctly better, for instance, than Mike Trout’s line last year, which vaulted him to a consensus top 3 prospect), especially during a year when the MWL’s average OPS is in the 600′s.
But here’s the best part: during July + August, Taveras has addressed the ONE weak spot in his hitting profile, his BB/K/AB ratios. Specifically, in April/May/June, Oscar had a 5/20/92 BB/K/AB.
Compare that to his July/August ratios of 19/24/148. Strikeouts down, and more importantly, walks WAY up.
Exciting stuff. What’s more, Baseball Prospectus’ Jason Parks mentioned just last week, regarding Taveras: “I’m sold on him. Lots of quality reports on his tools.”
Looks like a top 10 overall prospect to me. :)
Before we get carried away with the Trout comparisons let’s look at a few things. Trout had seriously better BB rate and K:BB rate last year (some of Bob’s favorite stats :) ). Trout made a bigger jump than Taveras made this year. Trout was promoted to high A slightly after mid year last year and performed well. Trout has more speed than Taveras and uses it well on the basepaths – lots of SB’s. Trout seems to be unquestionably a CF while it sounds like Taveras might be or has a chance to stick in CF.
One quibble here. Taveras is having a great year, no doubt, but his line this year isn’t “distinctly better” than Trout’s last year. Trout had a .446wOBA* with a 132wOBA+ and Taveras has a .437wOBA* with a 134wOBA+. Trout had a slightly higher wOBAr (.380 to .374). The numbers are obviously very close and any real difference is negligible, though Trout did have a better unintentional walk rate (12% to 7.7%).
Taveras will be a top 100, maybe even top 50-60, but I don’t think he’ll be a top 10 on the major prospect lists.
Border line “Elite”
Really?
plus arm, plus range, plus power, plus speed…. The guy has every tool to be an above average SS in the Major’s but he seems freak out everytime he gets the call.
No he doesn’t – he’s terrible at making contact, which is pretty much the most important tool for any hitter IMO.
I think he has the capabilities to be a decent MLB player and kinda hope he gets a chance, but I think a K-rate of 20%+ and a likely MLB batting average <.250 means he's not really got an "elite" ceiling IMO. Plus, he's actually of an age where you'll start to expect him to be getting WORSE, not better, pretty soon.
Was not talking about zuke specifically, just towards the argument as a whole.
Agreed. It’s one thing to discuss how *specific prospects* are being used by the major league coaching staff; after all, that’s all part of tracking a player’s development. What has gotten tiresome are the random remarks venting about TLR’s use of young players in general and the resultant argument that follows restating the same points posted a hundred times before. I don’t come hear to read that, and I seriously doubt most readers do either.
One thing that never really gets debated is the use of “prospects” as bench players/role players.
Looking at next year, I am wondering which direction the cards will go. Many are already making Cruz the backup catcher. I think I would rather have him catching everyday than backing up Molina.
Don’t get me wrong, fellas; I think Trout is the best prospect in baseball, for sure—the baserunning & defense *both* figure to outstrip Oscar T. (or almost any other prospect, for that matter).
By “distinctly better,” I was referring to Oscar’s (July/August) OPS being 325 points above the Midwest League average…while Trout last year was “merely” 262 over the MWL.
As for where Taveras will rank on major prospect lists, it’s kind of irrelevent in a way. Where he actually BELONGS on said lists is what matters, of course. And that’s top 10, to me. No one from the 2011 draft should outrank Taveras, so that leaves Trout, Matt Moore, J. Profar, Manny Machado, Brett Lawrie (maybe) if he’s eligible, Julio Teheran, and who else?
“Trout is the best prospect in baseball…” Uh, Bryce Harper might disagree. :-)
Still, a Trout comparison for Taveras is interesting enough. I’d want to see the way he plays, not just the numbers he puts up, but this guy should be getting some serious attention.