SEO tells me that I am contractually obligated to write an article on Shelby Miller today and so I comply.
It is not the infraction that I really want to write about today. A rich 20 year old kid drinking and fighting is a “dog bites man” situation. That would put him in about the “average” category for 20 year olds in the US. I’m sure all of us (who are over 20) can think of something stupid we did when we were 20 with or without alcohol. He did something, probably involving drinking and fighting, got caught and the Cardinals punished him. End of story, I hope.
Now on to what I find slightly more interesting and infuriating:
Apparently TLR even had input on disciplinary shutdown of Miller.
Ok, this is complete and utter BS. Do the Cardinals not have a member of their minor league organization who has suspended a guy before so they need help? Does Tony LaRussa even tell the groundskeeper how to do his job? Those are hopefully rhetorical questions, the latter more than the former, but this has gone too far. TLR is the manager of the baseball team, he coaches them on the field. We have learned that he is also the GM in the Rasmus situation and now he is lording over the minor leagues as well. To me, it does not matter if TLR went to Mo and the rest of the minor league team or they came to TLR. Why does he have so much power? Will TLR ever actually coach Shelby Miller?
Secondly, does this strike anyone as ironic, considering LaRussa’s previous run in with drinking and driving? Now, he is dealing out suspensions for minor leaguers who’s indiscretions are less than his own.
I have to move on to the next topic before my head explodes.
I’m hearing Cardinals having entitlement issues with more than one top prospect. Appears to be a recurring theme.
This is another tweet from Joe Strauss where he decries (yet again) how entitled he thinks Shelby Miller is. This comment however, rings true with what I have heard about the Cardinals system and I don’t think that makes the Cardinals out of the ordinary. Let’s go with a quote.
“We’re seeing an epidemic of people who are having a hard time making the transition to work — kids who had too much success early in life and who’ve become accustomed to instant gratification,” says Dr. Mel Levine, a pediatrics professor at the University of North Carolina Medical School
Dr. Levine here is not talking about young baseball players who have received a huge bonus or even baseball players in general, he is talking about all young adults from what some are derisively calling the Entitlement Generation. Every company in America that is hiring fresh out of college graduates has this problem with young, entitled youth. Every team in major league baseball has this problem among their prospects. That does not make it not a problem, it just does not make the Cardinals unique in having that problem.
Shelby Miller is a kid and kids make mistakes. Miller is unlike other kids his age as he does not get to make his mistakes in the relative consequence-free environment that college provides. Shelby lives in the (somewhat) real world. Miller will need to do a lot of growing up if he wants to turn his potential into reality between now and when he arrives on the scene in St. Louis. Additionally, getting better as a ballplayer requires work, and our young youth of the Entitlement Generation seem to want everything given to them ahead of completing any work. I don’t know for certain whether or not Shelby Miller wants to work for his goal of pitching in the majors, but the Cardinals will have to see that Miller works and continues to improve as a pitcher so that he can reach his lofty expectations. Their jobs depend on it. Hopefully, Tony La Russa will stay out of it this time.
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Apparently any first round pick / Domincan signing by Luhnow that is named a top prospect by Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus, Keith Law, etc is labeled as entitled by the major league coaching staff. Hey Tony, you’re 10-10 since the big trade that made your team so much better. Get the f out.
Bottom line is Shelby was given a gift of a big right arm. We should all be so lucky!! Time to grow up and show people he deserves that gift. If not he may end up like another famous Texan with a big right arm. Although that fellow might have had a little help!!
I’m not sure how much input managers have over something like that in other organizations, but I was not bothered by that. I tend to think minor league players should know what to expect from their managers. What exactly does “input” mean? Did Pop Warner call him up and go “what kinda punishment would you do in this situation?” Or did Tony call him unsolicited and go “suspend the young whippersnapper! these kids and their rock and roll music!!!!”
Also, while it is ironic that Tony did this, having a dui, why should that matter? Does that mean since Tony has recently had a dui, there should be no rules in the organization about this? Good god, I hope Ben Rothesburger never becomes a coach. Being a major leaguer involves work, but it also involves knowing that there are concequences for his actions. From what I heard, this is his second offense? First, okay, he didn’t learn his lesson. Second, he needs a more stern punishment. Hopefully he will learn his lesson.
I am extremely bothered that TLR was involved in this decision in any way. It should be out of his purview. I would bet anything if it wasn’t a star prospect he wouldn’t be involved. Shelby isn’t even on the 40 man roster. Tony has enough problems managing right now. HE should stick to his job.
DeWitt and Mo want TLR involved. They value his perspective. Left to his himself, TLR would like to stay out of it.
Sorry, Jumbo. That doesn’t make the situation any better. I hope you aren’t going back to your old mode of presuming you know what the Cardinal organization thinks.
Two problems with not wanting LaRussa being involved in Miller’s suspension. First, the organization has taken steps the last couple of seasons to improve the communication and input of the major league staff with the development system. I would think that a disciplinary issue with the organization’s top prospect would, and should, fall under that category. Second, after the Freese issue, I would hazard a guess that the organization would want to approach matters like this more seriously than they have done in the past. Considering how LaRussa and the coaching staff wound up dealing with Freese’s own alcoholic issues, and apparently dealing with it successfully, I wouldn’t be surprised if the organization asked for his input on dealing with its top prospect.
Of course saying that LaRussa had input without stating what that input was leaves things open to a whole lot of interpretation. How can you criticize LaRussa for having input when we do not know what that input was. Just because you have input in a decision does not mean that you made the decision or even agreed with the decision. For all we know LaRussa was asked and said that he would not suspend the kid and they suspended him anyway.
I guess we can spend all afternoon speculating on what that input was but at the end of the day, unless Strauss can do some reporting rather than gossiping, we will never know.
my inclination is to mostly withhold judgment until some more details get out, if they ever do. except for the notion that joe strauss needs to stop stirring the pot with his patented brand of straussuendo (i was already convinced of that).
doesn’t the proportionality of the response depend on what occurred? if shelby had five beers and a loud argument with his roommate, it’s probably not a big deal (though as a few have noted citing david freese and josh hancock, it’s worth the club keeping tabs on his off-the-field drinking). if he got blackout drunk and fought with five springfield police officers, i’m more concerned.
likewise, we know that this is not the first time, but we don’t know if there was one prior incident, or how serious it was. if he’s showing up drunk or hungover to games, that’s a bigger deal than just one minor drinking incident.
Twitter isn’t journalism. If its fit to print it would be in the paper. I think you are taking twitter to seriously.
I agree. When I worked in minor leagues, many of the bonus babies did have an attitude.
Failure was a humbling experience.
I think #Straussuendo is trending right now. That’s classic.
Agree we should not judge, not knowing facts. Wasn’t it in Bull Durham where the rookie was admonished for using his pitching hand in a fight. If you had huge money invested in a person’s body parts, wouldn’t you be concerned if your investment was being used wrecklessly.
Sounds strange but it amounts to that.
I doubt that LaRussa gives a damn if the young men drink a little. But bonus babies are special and not easily replaceable. They do have an obligation to take care of the team’s investment. Might even be in the contract. I have never seen a contract.
Best case is that Shelby learns a good lesson in humility and maturity.
Not worried about this, it may be for tha better.
I do have a problem with people putting words in TLR’s mouth and speculating what he did or did not do or say. That’s guessing.
I tend to take tweets from Joe Strauss not so seriously because the man has an affinity for stirring the pot. Having said that, if La Russa is indeed the one handing down the sentence for a minor league player, then that says it all about the current state of the Cardinals organization. Tony has FAR too much power and has his hands in things that shouldn’t even be remotely under his control. Dewitt seems to have such a hard-on for the man that he’s allowing him to run the entire organization. If true, this is sad and it explains a lot.
Strauss is a pot stirrer, but he also has good info and sources. He really gives a different perspective. It is worth considering. One should not take everything he says as truth nor should you disbelieve the guy because you disagree with his viewpoint.
I would be less concerned with the “entitlement” charges if we hadn’t just had the recent discussion about Taveras’ comportment.
Yeah, but that was just the opinion of a hyperventilator. This is more serious, since involving the organization.
Again, as I did in the previous Miller Suspension post, I am going to point out that irresponsible drinking is very serious. Ask Josh Hancock. Oh, he’s not around to ask.
I don’t want to be a hypocrite, so I will admit that I have on occasions drank too much and too irresponsibly. I just was lucky enough not to get caught or even called on it.
I think the fact that TLR was involved in the decisions regarding Miller indicates that yes, he does intend to be managing Miller at some point next year, and wants him to have his head screwed on right for that opportunity.
Finally for anyone pointing out TLR’s previous bad drinking behavior to somehow justify Miller’s is the problem we have in this country. Nobody is at fault for anything. We always point out someone else’s bad behavior to justify our own. Moral relativism is the bane of our society.
Amen!!!
“Finally for anyone pointing out TLR’s previous bad drinking behavior to somehow justify Miller’s is the problem we have in this country. Nobody is at fault for anything. We always point out someone else’s bad behavior to justify our own. Moral relativism is the bane of our society.”
What I find ironic was the “entitlement generation” portion of the article. He was talking about it right after the whole “well TONY had a DUI…what’s HE doing telling people they should drink responsibly?
The issue with TLR isn’t a justification for Miller’s actions. The problem I have with that scenario is that it is a credibility issue for TLR. It doesn’t excuse Miller but it does cloud LaRussa’s credibility to have input on the topic.
Actually he probably has more credibility because he knows how it can get out of control. Drinking is not an issue unless it gets out of control. I am sure that LaRussa, Freese, etc. probably have a better feel for where that line is than anyone having crossed it at one point themselves.
Completely disagree. It’s better he’s doing something to stop him from going down the route Tony went down with his dui. Under that logic, Choo would never be able to suspend someone for getting a dui if he became a manager. Vick could never suspend someone for having a dog fighting ring, and Big Ben….well, hide your daughters gentlemen.
The comment about this generation of kids being the entitlement generation is dead on. As a person who until last year managed a staff composed of mainly 20-25 year olds I can attest to the validity. I couldn’t assign a task to one of them without a barrage of, “why’s,”"it’s not fairs,” and, “well so and so isn’t doing as much,” where if I gave one of my older staffers a task it just got done. I read a story recently about a group of kids who are suing their law school because they just got out of school and can’t find a job, when they feel they were promised high paying salaries the minute they left school. If Shelby Miller, or others in the Cardinals farm system act like they are, “entitiled,” it is hardly a unique thing in that generation. They have no concept of how the world works, even in absence of having a big pitching arm
Good comment.
We just shipped out Colby Rasmus, who should still be playing at Memphis working on developing his personal maturity and skills. His Dad wanted him traded when he had to spend just one season at AA. He asked to be traded, when the Cards were in first place, playing at Wrigley Field. This personifies CLUELESS.
The Miller suspension is influenced by Colby’s immaturity. They would like these youngsters to learn more about life, in the minors, instead of showing up clueless and self important, in the majors, after reading how hot they are as prospects.
I don’t disagree with what you said. That said, every generation says it about the generation after them…friggin Socrates said it about the generation. My worry about Tony is that he’s going to way of Whitey who couldn’t handle the younger generation. He is no Phil Jackson
I’m not convinced that there is enough evidence to have a position on LaRussa’s input. LaRussa certainly has something to say about drinking problems…something that could be drawn from his own experience.
Perhaps he thought it important enough to give Miller a call and mentor the kid rather than mette punishment. It might mean more coming from someone who recognizes his own shortcomings and wants to help a kid avoid some of the pitfalls. Tony has further coached players guilty of substance abuse.
Miller may well be reacting to the newfound freedom, out from under his parents, school boards, etc. Frankly, I think overreaction to “boys will be boys” issues is far better than under reaction. One has to wonder if some of his outings weren’t a result of alcohol abuse.
When you see the results of pitchers like Halladay with phenomenal work ethic who treat their bodies like temples, you wish you could shake a young kid like Miller silly to get his attention.
For all of Clemens shortfalls, he conditioned diligently; so much so that he had a major impact on Schilling. Schilling found religion under Clemens tutelage. That might be the benefit of getting Miller around Carpenter and Waino as quickly as possible.
Not sure what Schilling finding religion under Clemens has to do with anything, and I would appreciate you leaving that out. Maturity and work ethic? Fine. But finding religion is not an automatic positive, and shouldn’t really be brought up in these circumstances.
I don’t think he actually meant religion but ok
finding religion is a common refrain which has nothing to do with faith:
http://hotlineoncall.nationaljournal.com/archives/2011/01/finding-religio.php
Ah, I see. My mistake, then, and I apologise for inferring something that wasn’t there. I do know Schilling is very religious, though, and thought it might have begun sometime when he was working with Clemens.
In that case, I fully agree with your stance.
No problem.
The post said TLR had input in to the disciplinary decision and a lot of people are trying to make that out TLR was mentoring the poor soul. Quite a stretch if you ask me.
Not saying that everything with Shelby is peachy-keen, but this is what a troubled prospect looks like:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jul/31/manchester-united-ravel-morrison
Hopefully Miller learns a lesson and goes back to working on his curve-ball.
Do people think this will affect his prospect status on a national level? Should it?
It could, it could not. I doubt it though.
I am not sure about TLR’s imput but why not, after all he did something stupid and he was an adult! His advice to Shelby (if true) might be very useful.
Shelby got in a fight, got hurt and I think someone decided it wasn’t fair to cover it up. You can’t pitch when you are hurt. My opinion is that Shelby was doing what he wants and not following team rules.
Might also be a good example for others as well.
Not when he’s still performing well. Same with Taveras. Knocks on attitude tend to lag poor performance with prospects. Should they ever falter, there will be plenty of people ready to ascribe it to their maturity though.
FWIW, I think there are simply some young, extremely talented young men in the organization. It’s hard to be 19/20 with this kind of media attention and avoid some warped views of yourself and or your actions. That doesn’t excuse anything and I hope the club gets a handle on whatever the situation is but this is eminently correctable.
I dunno. I don’t think this is some sort of colossal Greco-Roman tragedy play or anything. If someone wants to infer social relativism, cultural relativism, God, death, taxes, the pill, the bomb, and the demise of the West, that’s their opinion and they’re entitled to it. Simply, they needed to get the kid’s attention. Hopefully the suspension did.
I think it’s worthwhile to consider, though, in light of this organization’s recent history with alcohol-related incidents, that they needed to intervene quickly and effectively. If that included LaRussa, then I’d say whatever it takes to get the message to the kid. LaRussa could explain to the young man that “Asleep at the Wheel” is best left to being the moniker for a Texas swing band, and not driving protocol for the right of way rules at an intersection..
Seems to me, one effective learning tool for S Miller would be to let him read the accident report from J Hancock’s fatal accident, maybe a photo of the car after law enforcement’s response at the scene. Tell him, “Look kid, you’ve got a great fastball, but your not immortal. Not yet, anyway. Now, go work on your secondary pitches.” Play ball.
Wow, just read on Springfield news leader that the police department was called to find out if there was a report filed on Shelby. Guys, leave it alone. If there was I’m sure we would of all heard about it days ago. Don’t start opening a can of worms Shelby made a mistake, did something wrong and hopefully he will learn from it but don’t keep lingering on it. We are all human. As long as we learn from our mistakes and no one got hurt, let it go. The Cards already handled it and he got suspended. I’m sure the guy feels bad and said his apologies to his team. Let it go and move on.