All five teams that played tonight won. Shelby Miller was at least one member of the Holy Triumvirate of Cardinal Pitching Prospects to grace us with a stellar performance on a night when all three took the mound. Details anyone?
Hitting:
- Adron Chambers and Mark Hamilton (2 R) went 2-for-5
- Tyler Greene went 1-for-5 w/ 1 2B and 1 SB
- Matt Carpenter went 3-for-3 w/ 1 2B, 1 HR, 2 BB, 2 R, and 3 RBI
- Andrew Brown went 3-for-4 w/ a grand slam
Pitching:
- Brandon Dickson started but did not last long: 3.0 IP, 7 H, 5 R, 0 BB and 2 K
- Cory Rauschenberger’s only blemish in 3.0 scoreless innings was a single walk, he picked up the win
- Chuckie Fick went 1.2 IP w/ 1 H and 1 K
- Rich Rundles recorded one out, it was via the strike out
- Victor Marte pitched a scoreless inning for his 28th save, it included 1 H
Hitting:
- Matt Adams went 2-for-5 w/ 1 R
- Eric Duncan went 4-for-5, he hit for the cycle and picked up 3 R and 1 RBI along the way
- Zack Cox went 2-for-4 w/ 1 HR, 1 R and 4 RBI
- Chris Swauger went 2-for-4 w/ a solo homer
- Jermaine Curtis went 3-for-3 w/ 1 BB
Pitching:
- This was billed as a top pitching duel between Shelby Miller and Matt Shoemaker, Shelby came out on top: 5.0 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 1 BB and 6 K
- Samuel Freeman went 2.0 scoreless innings that included 2 H, 1 BB and 3 K
Hitting:
- Ted Obregon went 3-for-5 w/ 3 RBI and 1 SB
- Xavier Scruggs went 2-for-4 w/ 1 2B, 1 BB and a solo homer
- Niko Vasquez went 1-for-2 w/ 3 BB and 2 R
- Domnit Bolivar went 3-for-4 w/ 2 R
- Luis De La Cruz went 2-for-5 w/ 1 R and 3 RBI
Pitching:
- Carlos Martinez’s ineffectiveness/wildness continues: 4.0 IP, 5 H, 4 R (2 ER), 5 BB and 4 K
- Daniel Calhoun pitched 2.0 scoreless innings that included 2 H and 2 K
- Justin Wright went 1.2 IP w/ 1 H and 2 K
- Keith Butler saved his tenth game by recording the final out, he also gave up 1 H
Hitting:
- Kolten Wong returns to the DFR, he went 1-for-4 w/ 1 BB and 1 R
- Ronny Gil went 4-for-5 w/ 4 R and 1 SB
- Oscar Taveras went 3-for-3 w/ 1 3B, 1 HR, 2 R and 4 RBI
- Nick Longmire went 2-for-5 w/ 1 2B and 2 RBI
Pitching:
- Trevor Rosenthal was solid: 6.0 IP, 5 H, 2 R, 2 BB and 4 K
- Drew Benes was not as solid, he gave up 4 R in 2.0 IP
- Aidan Lucas went 1.0 inning which included 1 H and 2 K
Hitting:
- Breyvic Valera went 3-for-5 w/ 1 R
- Charlie Tilson batted second and went 2-for-5 w/ 1 2B, 2 R and 2 RBI
- Matthew Williams went 1-for-4 w/ 2 RBI and 1 SB
- David Washington went 1-for-3 w/ 1 2B, 1 BB, 1 R and 1 SB
- Kolby Byrd went 2-for-4 w/ 1 R
- Jonathan Keener went 2-for-3 w/ 1 HR, 1 BB, 3 R and 3 RBI
Pitching:
- Benjamin Freeman started the game but didn’t get to the fourth inning: 3.0 IP, 4 H, 3 R, 2 BB and 4 K
- Dyllon Nuernberg didn’t fair any better: 1.2 IP, 1 H, 3 R, 2 BB and 1 K
- Tyler Mills went 1.1 IP w/ 1 H and 1 BB, he also picked up the win
- Michael Santana went 2.0 perfect innings that included 2 K
- Roberto Canache K’d two in one perfect inning
Entries (RSS)
good to see wong back. good to see tilson with an XBH. good to see carpenter preparing for his september call-up with continuing ridiculous on-base action.
is it just me or has rosenthal stopped hitting people so much as at the beginning of the season? he still has 13 HBP, which is pretty impressive, but it seems like most of them came before july 1. also, looks like he’s getting tired or on an innings limit — he’s gone less than 4 innings both his last two outings, and had done so only one other time this season.
Rosenthal pitched 6 innings last night, but no question his previous two outings were shaky. He is now at 120.1 IP. Somebody else might come up with a reliable number, but given the number of players that participate in EST, I can’t really imagine his EST competitive innings last season were in excess of 40. So his competive innings last season were probably in the neighborhood of 75. Therefore, this season represents a big increase in load. If he is getting tired, it’s no mystery as to why to me.
Same issues with Martinez and Miller. I don’t have a pitch count on Martinez, but he pitched 4 innings. The 5 walks allowed probably caused him to peak his pitch count. Miller pitched 5 innings, but didn’t go out for the 6th after 87 pitches. So, it looks to me like they are probably monitoring pitch counts pretty closely now. I don’t have a pitch count on Rosenthal either.
The back end of the Memphis bullpen flat out, get outs. Are the cardinals really only going to give 2 pitchers a September callup? Seems like there should be one more IMO.
dickson, cleto, who else?
marte seems useable…
Marte seems useable, but isn’t on the 40 man.
Yeah, I realized that after I commented. But had to run out so I couldn’t amend it.
Two topics i would love to see you guys cover is how you think the cards should handle their 3rd base situation for the future. And how Oscar Taveras compares historically to other teen agers that tore up low A.
I don’t think anybody knows quite how to handle Taveras’ success at 19 yo at this level. He was awfully good last year in JC, but, it just raised a few eyebrows and a “let’s see if he can follow thru at the next level”… Well, he took it to another level…and then some.
It’s become hard to contain the enthusiasm after a season like this one. With an OPS over 1,000 and a BA of .381, I don’t think folks really know what to think. Clearly he’s for real. Besides a few inane comments about his BABIP being too high, most folks just sit in awe and pinch themselves.
He’s going to be a little hard to keep under wraps next year. I think he makes Springfield at some point in 2012 if he can stay healthy.
If he isn’t a top 100 prospect this winter, they may as well do away with the list.
I agree that he makes Springfield at some point, but I’d like to see him start at Palm Beach just to see how he does in those bigger parks. I personally don’t think they’ll affect him much since he’s not a home run hitter, as much a just a BAMF at the plate.
Then again, I’d like to see him start at Memphis and beat the hell out of the ball there, but that might be a bit too aggressive on my part.
and Taveras didn’t even turn 19 until June 19th, so he’ll play half of next year at 19
I suspect he will show up in the 20-30 range on the list that favor ceiling. He will probably show as a top 50 guys on almost every list.
I cant emphasize enough how he oozes talent when you see him in person. Best player I saw on any minor league team this year and I have seen every team in the midwest league and some PCL teams. I actually would rate him higher than Carlos Martinez on the org depth chart.
you go to a lot of Kane County games, right?
Cool to see Duncan hit for the cycle. I know he’s no prospect, but I’m sure when all is said and done this will be among his best nights ever as a pro. Congrats to him.
I’m a little confused. Was Ty Jenkins originally scheduled to pitch tonight…or is Trevor Rosenthal the third guy in the “Holy Triumvirate Of Cardinal Pitching Prospects”?
Good luck to the researcher seeking other Low-A teenagers who hit .375+, with an extra base hit every other game, and solid strikezone command. ;)
Fun Taveras Stat #113: with men on base, O.T. is hitting .411/.456/.624, while striking out less than 10% of the time.
Yeah, I thought about Tyrell, but I was referring to Rosenthal. Maybe it should be the Holy Quadrumvirate. I like it.
Based on gossip from an agent, Cards do view Rosenthal #3. That was a couple of months ago though.
Freeman (lefty), marte, Fick
All with good numbers and deserving.
Ottavino
Another shot out of the bullpen.
The difficulty with calling up all of those guys is that they are not on the 40 man roster and would require a corresponding cut for each call up. Teams don’t generally want to make such moves until later in the off season, when they reset the 40 man roster and have spaces to add such players and others due to players currently on the 40 man roster either being released or declaring free agency.
I don’t think most realize that, they have that “just call them up attitude”.
If they haven’t used Ottavino at some point this season, there is no reason to think they would give him a shot in September
I posted a fan post on VEB about potential September call ups based on the 40 man and my perception of need on the big league club.
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2011/8/26/2385979/potential-september-callups
@ Tom s.
Memphis back end of the pen, AKA, Fick is leading the PCL for relief pitchers in Avg, against, 1.73, and leading the PCL in HOLDS @ 16. 67.1 inn, 42 hits and he has ONLY given up 2 jacks all year. He just gets outs. He would look good in Colorado being a sinkerballer. Marte is and older guy, but he has 28 saves. I can’t see them just bringing up 2 pitchers. What happens if 3 big league pitchers go down? Give
Theoretically they could recall 15 pitchers or some combination of pitchers and position players totaling 15, but if a player is recalled for September first they want him to get some playing time and secondly, if the player has not previously been on the major league active roster it starts the clock for free agency and arbitration, earlier than might be necessary when they really need that player next season.
If more than two pitchers currently with the Cards did go down, they could always recall another pitcher some time later in September.
The question is whether or not you are going to protect Fick in the off season. If you are, you consider calling him up. Plenty of players who wont be back next year who could be released to make room on the 40 man roster.
MArte is on a 2 year minor league contract so you control him next year w/o putting him on the 40 man roster so he almost certainly wont be brought up.
If they don’t call up Marte he may ask for his release, what a shame if they lose him.
Who would they take off the 40 man roster?
But the way Marte’s contract is structured, they don’t have to give him his release.
Patterson would be the first guy I’d let go. Of the minor leaguers, it would be Samuel.
Yeah, I kind of think the Samuel experiment is over.
Yes, you would think that. However the fact that they kept Samuel on the 40 man roster all season would indicate that they still want to keep control of him. They have removed other guys like Kopp from the 40 man roster so it seems like they might want to wait until they have to add players to the 40 man roster to protect them from the Rule 5 draft before they might make a move with Samuel. Doing it at that time when all the other teams are adding prospects they want to protect, makes it more likely they could get him sent off the 40 man roster via waivers without being claimed.
As it stands now in order to activate Sanchez from the 60 day DL they will either have to release a player or put someone else on the 60 day DL. I doubt that they want to do that in order to make additional adds to the 40 man roster for players like Fick or Marte. There will not be much to gain seeing either of them in the trash games of September, at least not enough to lose someone else to make room.
Within a week after the World Series they will have up to 9 slots opened up on the 40 man roster as a result of free agency; Albert, Carp, Jackson et al. If they feel they want to protect guys like Fick and Marte along with whatever other more highly thought of prospects that have to be protected from this year’s Rule 5 draft, that is the better time to do that from a roster managment perspective. If Fick and Marte were not protected and not taken in the Rule 5 draft, then they could be invited as non roster pitchers to spring training, and if they don’t make it on the opening day 25 man roster, someone like Marte would not have to pass waivers to be again stockpiled at AAA, and for Fick an option would not have to be used.
They should put Reifer on the 60 day DL and active Sanchez. And they definitely should release Arthur Rhodes when the Sept callups happen. There is no earthly point to stealing appearances from the young guys in the pen for Rhodes just so Tony can play manager in a misguided attempt to influence the outcome of meaningless games. Gotta let the kids play and, dare I say it, even allow right handed relievers to face tough left handed hitters late in close games.
I think the Rhodes is currently rated as a Type B free agent which means if they have an understanding with him, they can offer him arbitration, he would decline and they would get a compensation pick after the first round. That would seem to be a good reason to hold onto him for 30 more days. The few innings that someone not on the 40 man roster currently would get in September can’t possible be worth that.
I agree that Reifer could be put on the 60 day DL, but there is some arcane rule about his service time that has prevented them from doing that prior to now. Thus I doubt that they will do that now, again with the upside of seeing a few September innings from someone like Fick.
Corey Patterson does not currently rank for draft choice compensation and thus he might be the cut for Sanchez.
I understand what you are saying about Samuel but I think they may have been waiting to see if he recovered from his injury problems. It appears he may not have (and may never will) so they may go ahead and cut bait. Not advocating that but it seems logical and I wouldn’t cry if they did.
All of these prospects better start throwing strikes. Fick and Marte are ready to pitch in the show based on the numbers. All of the other guys in the lower levels better start to figure out how to get a ground ball. Fick is a 15 RD pick. Plus he is cute. He will pitch in the show for someone based on the numbers he has put up this year. Out with the OLD guys and in with a home grown draft pick. Give the kid a chance. He is leading the PCL with a 1.73 aveage against him. 3.15 ground ball ratio and only two guys have taken him yard. TRADE HIM to Toronto. We have more dead weight on our 40 man roster than Fat Bastard. AKA Austin powers.
Cox has been on fire since July 1. He has the best avg in all of AA since then and showing some power. This is definitely a good sign.
I would think we have a top 10 farm system… At long last..
RE: solar pons
Top 10 may be a bit rich for our system. I love our prospects but with the perceived depth of the 2011 draft, I would expect some systems which had multiple early draft picks to move ahead of us. However, a jump into the low teens should be warranted.
Let me qualify my opinion here by saying that I don’t watch a lot of other systems very closely. I do occasionaly catch a BA or KLaw chat though.
If we have 5 or 6 prospects in the top 100, not sure how they keep us out of the top third overall. Shelby, Martinez, Cox and Taveras seem locks and Adams and Jenkins have decent shots.
I think Wong is a top 100 prospect (but wont make many list). I also don’t think Jenkins is (but he will make a lot of lists)
Completely agree.
In grouping/ranking pitching prospects, how does the following list (with perceived best case upside) hold up?
1. Miller (#1 starter)
2. Martinez (1)
3. Jenkins (2)
4. Swagerty (2/3)
5. Rosenthal (3)
6. Whiting (?)
7. Cleto (3/4)
8. Kelly (3/4)
And then, does anyone see a solid, mid-rotation starter out of the next tier? Not really sure who would make up the next group, Gast, Addition, Hooker, Blair, etc. . .?
If even 3 of the above list reaches their potential we are going to be loaded in a couple of years. Should net a couple of useful bullpen arms as well. Truly exciting.
I like your list, but it doesn’t include Lynn who well could be or become a starter. I am guessing that they might just bite the $ bullet and exercise Carp’s somewhat pricey option, so that they are not committed to another big dollar amount beyond 2012, and then after 2012 they could let Lohse, Westbrook and Carp go and have all the guys on your list (with Lynn and they guys you have on the next tier) ready to fill those 1-3 slots with Wainright and Garcia as the other two starters.
The best thing potentially about the depth of your list is that they probably will not have to overspend on a starter in free agency for a while.
That looks pretty good I’d say. I would probably put Kelly at 6. I was a big-time Kelly doubter, but in only his second year in the system he has reached AA and had success (albeit inconsistent). His GB tendencies and big arm make him a legit SP prospect imo.
I almost wanted to say that Cleto doesn’t belong on a list of potential starters, but the fact that he is only 22 in AAA gives me hope that with continued seasoning he can possibly stick as a starter. A lot of starters don’t get to the big leagues until 25+, so I don’t think he should be written off as a BP arm, and has plenty of time to develop his secondary stuff if the organization decides that’s the path they want him to take. I still think the organization will cave and at some point rush him to the majors to bolster the pen.
Perhaps prematurely, I’ve already begun thinking of Lynn as a MLB player. Not sure how many innings he has thrown to date, but with his success I’d expect him to stay with the team. If I was considering him for the above list I’d probably put him at 4 (which truly speaks to our depth). I supose the same argument could be made about Scrabble as well.
I also do agree that Kelly has all the tools to rank higher, and I’ve been lucky to catch 2 or 3 of his starts at Springfield this summer. He throws considerably harder than I expected, and induces alot of weak contact. I expect his numbers will start catching up with his performance if not this year, than in the early going next year. However, I’d give Cleto a slight edge due to his performing better at a higher level, and Whiting’s numbers are out of this world. Just don’t know enough about Whiting yet to place him properly. Rosenthal gets a lot of pub here and elsewhere, and that may be coloring my judgment on ranking him higher somewhat. Swagerty’s numbers are also unreal at an even higher level. Haven’t yet seen him pitch.
The very best thing about all of this is that I wouldn’t be stunned if 4 or 5 of those guys turn into mid-rotation starters or better withing 2-3 years, with a couple having even better upside. Add Lynn and Scrabble to that and we truly are looking at a bright pitching future. I also think if two or three of those ‘lesser’ guys don’t work out their respective floors (Kelly, Swagerty, Cleto) is a late inning guy.
In the dog days of summer it is fun to think about the staff we could have in two or three years. Salas and Sanchez should still be around, and with any luck WR and Garcia will still be pitching at a very high level.
I also think of Lynn as a ML pitcher. I don’t see him back in Memphis save a rehab start. But, I see Lynn in the back end of games sharing closing duties with Motte. With Salas and Sanchez handling the seventh and Motte and Lynn the eighth and ninth, it turns into a six inning game for the opponent.
The guy I see being squeezed out is Boggs. Maybe he puts it together, but, I’ve stopped being a believer.
I know it has been discussed before, but I can’t really remember what I’ve read about Taveras’ defense. Also, I am not interested in doing the possibly large amount of coming through pages and threads to find out. I might vaguely remember some people saying they think he could legitimately handle center, but I don’t know if I’m imagining that or confusing him with another prospect. What say you, FutureRedbirds?
He can play center right now, but I feel, and I think the org feels, he’s going to be a corner outfielder. He runs well but isn’t blazing fast, but he does run well. I’m not 100% certain he’s going to have the arm for right so left might be his future.
(I’ve seen him twice this year. 1st time he played RF. 2nd time he played LF.)
He’s played 65 games in the outfield (the others were DH) with a breakdown of: 39 RF, 16 CF, 11 LF
I think it’s obvious the organization is not going to try to force a position on him yet.
I could be wrong, but I thought that his arm was considered to be an above average tool. And not that it means much (it could potentially be an unfavorable stat), but he did have an OF assist last night, too. Now, I haven’t actually seen him play, so your word trumps mine. However, I have seen some highlights of him in RF, and he looked pretty comfortable out there. From what I could see it looked like he was taking direct routes, and showed good body control sliding in on shallow flies.
Matt Adams is featured on MinorLeagueBall.com today for those who missed it:
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/8/29/2391313/minor-league-notes-august-29-2011#storyjump
I only had the opportunity to see him really unleash one throw and it did look to be pretty good. I’m not going to base too much off of one throw so I guess when it comes to my opinion, I’ll have to say, “sss”. ;-)
As for his comfortableness in the outfield, I think he looks more than comfortable and capable in the outfield. He look to go back and in on balls very well as well as going to his left (I don’t recall seeing him have to really have to go to his right for anything notable).
In other words, I have no concerns about him playing either corner spot and only marginally am concerned at this point about him being able to be a regular centerfielder.
Cool info, thanks folks. Sounds like signs point to him being a competent defender? Can I go ahead and assume that about him at this point?
Thanks Franklin for the link to minorleagueball also, I probably wouldn’t have checked that site again today so I would have missed it.
Talked to someone today that was at Sunday’s QC game – said Taveras made a terrific over the shoulder running grab – resulted in double play as runner figured he wouldn’t get to it.
So, there’s the “assist”. Assists are tough because you really need to know the situation to know whether or not it was because of the arm or something else….like bad baserunning.
Right. And too many can be worrisome because that “something else” could be a reputation of a bad arm, thus a big increase in opportunities.
Of course you are correct, however, I would consider the covering ground a plus. I haven’t heard anybody say he has a plus arm.
Oscar was on DL for all the games I got to see, but I had heard his arm was good. The concern was that it was still raw and needed work on release point, hitting cutoff, etc…
At his age, it would not surprise me if he was able to strengthen his arm anyway, so not having a plus arm now, doesn’t mean it can’t get better. I haven’t seen him in person, so I am only parrotting what I have heard others say who have.
Dickson only went 3 b/c he’s getting the call?
50 pitch count limit
I remember not too long ago 95% of this forum thought Brandon Dickson would never pitch in the big leagues and just be a AAAA filler. Now he’s starting thursday against the team the big club is chasing. Such pessimism.
To be fair.
Don’t you have to make it to the Majors and fail (for the most part) to be considered AAAA?
Yup. Dickson stil has plenty of time to establish himself as AAAA filler. Getting a spot start after a team is out of the race isn’t evidence he’s not a AAAA pitcher – indeed, I expect spot starts out of AAAA guys.
Anywho, I think Dickson should be the last man (i.e., long-man, mop up guy) in the ML bullpen next year. He’s cheap, better out of the bullpen if his pitching earlier this year is any indication, and, frankly, those guys don’t matter much anyway.
I remember that also.
Putting up Dickson could be good, the Brewers have never seen him. Then again they could carve him up for lunch.
I am in his corner, he has worked hard and he deserves more than another year in AAA.
In all fairness, the Cardinals are chasing the Brewers in the same sense that I’m chasing Keira Knightley.
That’s pretty funny……and true……
I like your odds with Keira better.
But, the Cards had a chance at one point. ;o)