Comments on: Untouchable

By: Hugecardsfan

Hugecardsfan — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 00:37:33 +0000

Jay’s career OPS is higher than Jones’ as is…. A .350 OBP is considerably better than .319. I don’t see the allure for Jones.

By: Hugecardsfan

Hugecardsfan — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 00:30:05 +0000

Adam Jones is a fine fielder. He has power but how much is problematic. 19 of his 25 Hr’s this year were in Baltimore’s small park. Discounting his home HR’s, Jay had more per at bat. I wouldn’t give Rosenthal away on a bet…no one who would trade him for Jones can be my GM. To trade 3 viable arms and Jay for Jones is a misuse of farm talent IMO.

By: Cards fan in Chitown #2

Cards fan in Chitown #2 — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 18:35:13 +0000

Sign me up for that!!!!!!

By: Travis F,

Travis F, — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 18:13:31 +0000

I agree a lot with your assessment. In our hearts we all say pitching is key because having a good staff is crucial to being competitive. Many think we can supply the major league club with 4 and 5 starters much cheaper than Lohse and Westbrook. What many fail to realize is that pitchers are less certain to realize their top end projections. What if Shelby Miller only becomes a number 3 starter. While that has tremendous value, does that make him untouchable in the right deal? Would you trade Jaime Garcia for a cornerstone young cost-controlled SS? Likely.

With that in mind, I probably make Miller untouchable, but he is the only pitcher who remains untouchable in the right deal. Wong and Tavares are the only position players who are untouchable for me.

Martinez has great lure to him, but he there is a lot that can happen as he proceeds through the minors. Same with Rosenthal and Jenkins.

By: zuke354

zuke354 — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 17:51:15 +0000

Rosenthal, Jay, McClellan and choice of Cleto/Joe Kelly for…

Adam Jones?

By: JC

JC — Tue, 31 Jan 2012 00:53:38 +0000

This would actually be a good bigger topic post. There are so many guys that could fall in this category it would be quite interesting to see everyone’s opinions and reasons why they think that a certain player(s) would be breakout prospects in 2012. Here are a few of my favorites in no particular order:

1) Hector Hernandez – LHP – been one of my favorites since joining the Cards
2) Reggie Williams Jr – OF – super athletic and still learning to turn that athleticism into baseball skills
3) Chris Edmondson – OF – He can hit…I can see him taking another step forward
4) Nick Longmire – OF – I’ve always been higher on Longmire than most. He has plenty of tools that can be a productive RF…need to clean up the swing and approach
5) Adam Ehrlich – C – Like this pick in the 2011 draft
6) Lance Jeffries – OF – Another 2011 draft pick that I liked the upside.
7) Tyler Mills – RHP – Has late inning potential but needs to get control of his arsenal
8) Ben Freeman – LHP – Still learning to pitch but has some good pitches to work with
9) Tyler Rahmatulla – 2B – Thought this was a great upside pick late in the 2011 draft. Will get challenged in 2012 with an aggressive path IMO
10) Anthony Garcia – OF – His name got out there a little bit in 2011 but he has potential to do more
11) Ronnie Gil – SS – Another guy that got some press in 2011 but his potential is still far from developed
12) Kevin Jacob – RHP – Closer stuff but has to reign in his arsenal and clean up the delivery a bit.

By: Cards fan in Chitown #2

Cards fan in Chitown #2 — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 05:56:52 +0000

As a die hard Cards fan….. I’m just glad we have so many good prospects that we can have this discussion.

We all know about Miller, CMart, Jenkins and Rosy…… Any ideas who could break through and have a big year in 2012?

By: wileyvet

wileyvet — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 05:05:13 +0000

No need to be sanctimonious now BC. Being corrected didn’t hurt my feelings as you and everyone else can read in my last reply. It was your rude comment that I was talking out of my ass, but then you already know that. You could be a politician. I apologize (see how that’s done) for calling you a “baseball geek” if that hurt your feelings. CC wears it as a badge of honor because he really is an expert on our farm system or at least it seems he lives Cardinal baseball 24/7. You I don’t know as well.

By: Danny

Danny — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 01:35:34 +0000

Just be careful where you trade them. Can still remember that Steve Carlton trade to Philly!! He killed us for years. Trade to the American league!! And get something for whoever you trade!!!

By: Hugecardsfan

Hugecardsfan — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 00:51:18 +0000

5 dollar bills are a bit more fungible than pitchers to make for a good argument.

I don’t know what the delta is between position players and pitchers but reject the idea that it’s as simple as or even approximates 2 to 1. It’s a case by case basis. Sure, a Bryce Harper would trump Shelby Miller. But not Manny Machado. At the stage Shelby Miller or Matt Moore are, for instance, their valuation approximates any of the other top ten prospects that are non pitchers…save a phenom like Harper, and perhaps, to a lesser extent, Trout. Yes, there are preferences, but that’s simply taste, opinion, attitude…nothing more.

We all get that pitchers break. But once they’ve reached the majors their value soars. In fact, were Miller not a Cardinal, I might willingly trade Martinez and Rosenthal plus for him at this point.