Springfield found themselves in a long game last night though they pulled out the win. The system as a whole went 4-2.
- Adron Chambers was 2-for-4.
- Ryan Jackson was 1-for-3 with a walk.
- Zack Cox was 2-for-4 with a double and a home run. Cox has shown some additional power in recent games but continues to struggle to reach base. I find it interesting to think about the level of hand wringing that surrounds Shelby Miller‘s scuffling relative to that of Zack Cox (who is on a major league contract). They seem disproportionately out of balance.
- Tyler Lyons struck out 4 in 7 scoreless innings of work. He walked 2 and allowed 3 hits.
- Jess Todd struck out 2 while walking 1 and allowing 1 hit. Todd is striking out better than a batter an inning and has nearly a 3:1 K:BB ratio.
Springfield 2, NW Arkansas 1 (13 innings)
- Kolten Wong was 1-for-3 with a pair of walks.
- Jermaine Curtis went 0-for-4 but walked twice.
- Jamie Romak was 2-for-5. He hit the game tying home run in the 9th inning to send the game to extras.
- Greg Garcia was 1-for-2 with 3 walks.
- Richard Castillo went 7 innings striking out 7. He walked 2 and allowed 4 hits in his scoreless effort.
- Eric Fornataro allowed 1 hit in a scoreless frame.
- Keith Butler allowed a rare run in the 9th inning. He allowed 1 walk and 1 hit while striking out 1.
- Deryk Hooker saved the bullpen with 3 innings of scoreless baseball allowing 2 hits and 2 strikeouts.
- Tyler Rahmatulla was 2-for-3 with a double and a pair of walks.
- James Ramsey was 2-for-5 with a double.
- Chris Edmondson was 3-for-5.
- Luis de la Cruz was 2-for-5 with a double and a home run.
- Drew Benes got shelled for 8 hits in 3.2 innings allowing 5 runs (4 earned). He walked 1 and struck out 1.
- Nick Martini walked twice in 4 plate appearances.
- Anthony Garcia was the only player with a multi-hit game. Garcia went 4-for-4 with a double.
- Kyle Hald struck out 7 in 7 innings but was tagged for 6 hits and 2 runs. Hald’s strikeout rate has dropped a bit this season but has a 6:1 strikeout to walk rate on the season. He also recorded 11 of 12 outs on play via the groundball.
- Breyvic Valera (2B) was 2-for-4.
- Patrick Wisdom (3B) was 1-for-3 with a walk.
- Jonathan Keener (C) was 2-for-4.
- Ben Freeman struck out 4 in 4.1 innings. He allowed 1 hit but walked 3. The hit was a home run.
Johnson City 2, Bristol 1 (7 innings)
- C.J. McElroy (CF) was 2-for-3 with a double and a triple.
- Nick Gillung allowed 5 hits in 5 innings. He struck out 3 and walked 2 for 1 ER.
Entries (RSS)
I think most people realized the Zack Cox contract was an over-reach at the time, and it continues to be so relative to his projection. Shelby Miller, however, had the minor league track record to justify the hype. Up until this season, that is.
The 25 roster doesn’t need Cox. Not this season. Not next. MCarp makes Cox redundant, better fielder, better bat, more versatile. However, the Cardinals very much have a need for Shelby Miller in the near term. Two starting pitchers are free agents after the season, a third is to undergo the knife soon and may never pitch again. A fourth starter is on the DL and one has to question if he will every be able to stay healthy (Jaime). That the team needs a starter is one of the reason why I have suggested flip flopping Miller and Rosenthal. Miller looks to be years away and needs to get out of the spotlight. Rosenthal is better prepare to contribute in 2013 to the big club and appears to have a stronger maturity level.
Are you referring to Garcia going under the knife after this season? I thought he had started a throwing program. Have I missed something?
I think the reference about going under the knife is to Carpenter
Yes C Carp.
Ooops! I junped the gun on you. You scared me. Don’t mean to rain on your parade….but don’t you think your analysis is worst case scenario? 1) Cox is still young and in only his second full professional season. There is still plenty of time for him. 2)Shelby is pitching in AAA after dominating AA last year. How can he be “years away”? 3)Lohse could resign and we have an option on Westbrook(not saying I want him….just sayin’). 4)Garcia has been hurt but that happens to a lot of pitchers. 5)You may be right. Carp may never pitch again. But that is worst case scenario.
Not criticising you. Just saying that an optimist would say that Miller is 21 at the AAA level and going through the same growing pains that almost every pitcher does before reaching the bigs. And that scouts still rank him as elite. An optimist might also say that Cox is only 23 and one step from the Majors. He has also been on a tear for more than a month after a horrible start. I love Matt Carpenter but he is 26 and had 3 full seasons in the minors before hitting the show. Would it really be a big deal if it took Cox til 2013 to make it? Isit unreasonable to believe Shelby could work things out and start in the majors next year? I don’t think so.
23 really isn’t all that young for a prospect. Especially one that came out of a major college baseball program as the most polished hitter of his draft.
If you don’t see the very real possibility staring us in the face that Carp may never pitch against after the multitude of surgeries that guy has undergone, then god help you.
I believe my quote was: “You may be right. Carp may never pitch again. But that is worst case scenario.” What should God help me with?
“redundant?” Carp was about as far as one prospect could be from– AAA at 23 years old. The Cardinals need both prospects and if they trade either of them– the better receive a long term solution in the deal.
“Miller looks to be years away” Is that based on box score scouting or have you seen him pitch? I couldn’t disagree more with that opinion.
Look up redundant in the dictionary and tell me what you find. MCarp is the spare corner infielder on the 25 man roster. That is the only potential 25 man roster spot for Cox. He’s incapable of playing anywhere else. Do you think Cox could beat out MCarp for that roster spot in 2013? MCarp is putting up better numbers in the MLB this season than Cox is posting in AAA and MCarp is the better defender. Taking into consideration the extensive playing time Descalso has had at 3B and I’m not even sure Cox is #3 on the Cards depth chart @ 3B. Don’t tell about Cox being 23 years old. It’s meaningless at this point because he got an ill-advised MLB contract. Cox has burned two option years already. 2013 is his last option year. One of Cox or MCarp will be traded because they are redundant.
I may be wrong, but I believe cox has not burned 2 years already on teh contract. I thought I remember reading that due to a technicality in the contract…and that he did not participate in any minor league games the year he signed, that he still had all 4 years starting in 2011. does anyone else remember that, or am I making this up?
“incapable” You don’t know that- just like you wouldn’t have known (projected) that Carpenter was able to play in the OF in 2012– his 2011 season. Cox has the skill-sets (tools) to play another position on the diamond. The arrogance of that notion w/o one live look (my opinion on you)– I simply find ridiculous.
Yea comparing numbers between these two seems really fair– you have any idea how hard it is to even compete at AAA with less than 200 professional games under your belt? What Cox is doing with what little time he’s been given to develop, is ridiculously hard. I typically find guys that devalue that as not good or impressive enough, because they have zero gut invested in this game past a HS level to even have freaking clue– truly how hard this game actually is to play and how being in AAA w/ less than 200 professional games– should have your complete respect.
He’s starting to hit in AAA, but still being labeled by some as a “ill-advised MLB contract”– whatever– ZC is going to be a big leaguer and this contract will be a memory when he’s Matt Carpenter’s age.
Nothing “redundant” about two prospects that are 3 year apart in age, especially when ones in AAA at 23 years old.
Cox played some 2B in college. His versatility is at least at MCarp’s level. He should develop a better bat and power. He is younger as well. MCarp might be a bit more attractive to other teams right now in trade talks.
How do you figure Miller is years away when he is already in AAA and his perihprials aren’t as bad as his ERA suggests. he has allowed a ridiculous amount of HR’s if that returns to normal it should help a lot of problems. He obviously isn’t ready for the big leagues this season but i don’t see how a MLB debut next year is out of the question.
Cox came with all kinds of warts. Didn’t hit with enough power. No speed. Wasn’t that good of a fielder. Cox has always looked more like a trade chip than a prospect much like the Walrus. Where Shelby was the high upside pick that was actually living up to expectations until this year.
Is Castillo a legitimate prospect? Walks seem a little high, but all his other numbers look pretty good. Anyone have scouting report on this guy?
WHen I saw Hald last week, I felt like it would take a couple at-bats but kids could time him up pretty well. There wasnt a lot of deception in the velocity of his motion and the velocity of the ball. I am going to be really curious to see him in Springfield.
Does he still have that plus curve-ball in his repertoire?
Meaning does Richard Castillo still have that plus curve-ball?
You guys are really applying revisionist history on Cox. He was maybe the most advanced hitter in the draft, and he had shown plus power in BP that hadn’t translated to game power yet.
It’s not “you guys” that apply that history: it’s his contract. Every player, you are correct in implying, comes out of high school or college with warts. By signing a contract that allows them to develop at a normal rate, most get to have the warts worked off at an appropriate level and time, and their tools translate, if they’ve got them, to success at an age-appropriate league in time for a major-league career. The place where Cox screwed himself, and the Cardinals acquiesced to the screwing, was the major-league contract, which accelerated all that and caused the wart removal to play out right in the public eye.
None of this was a big surprise at the time; very much the contrary. The organization is running out of patience with him, because they MUST be running out of patience with him, with the last of his option years now visible on the horizon. That simply puts him in a very different situation than Miller, for reasons having nothing to do with baseball talent and everything to do with contracts.
The reports on Cox time of the draft were absolutely glowing about his bat, and might have walked away without the major league deal. I do that deal everytime, unfortunately it just looks like it’s not going to work out this time.
You give a college guy with “glowing” reports about “his bat” a major league deal “everytime”? Glad you’re not running the organization.
Cox was a very advanced bat and a Boras guy, so yeah he would have walked without the major league deal. If he was the guy the scouting reports saw, he would have been a on path similar to what Wong is taking.
While I agree that the scouting report on Cox at the time was that he had a very advanced bat, but that is only one tool. There were questions about how much power he would develop and how good a fielder he would be, which is probably why he fell to the Cardinals in the draft.
Signability was the biggest reason he fell. He was widely considered a Top 10 level of talent.
Shelby is 21 and would be age-appropriate as a pitcher in Low-A. He hasn’t embarrassed himself pitching in AAA, where the average age is 27.
Cox, accd. to Fangraphs, has a wRC+ of 79 (100 being average offense for league). It was in the 50s a month ago. He is also 4 years below the average age in AAA and in his first trip through.
The reason I wasn’t worried about Cox was because he had shown that he was a slow starter at every level he had played at. He started slow at AAA made adjustments and is now starting to hit better.
Zach Cox has been tearing it up for awhile now and has really cut down on his strikeouts the last 10 plus games. He figured out a flaw in his swing and obviously it’s working. I’m not giving up on him.
Ricard Castillo is having a heck of a year in Springfield. I wonder how much trade value he has.
Anthony Garcia is putting up the second best offensive numbers in the cardinals system without much attention. A shame really. I would love to see this site do a separate article just on him.
Third best. Don’t forget Colin Walsh’s line .314/.423/.572 with 64 RBI in 75 games. By the way, is he on the DL? Haven’t seen his name in the boxscores recently.
yeah you are right..i did think of Walsh as i wrote that..It’s showing Walsh is active on his milb page..don’t think he’s currently on the dl..he played on July 11th
Was activated two days ago from the 7 day DL.
I think the difference in “hand wringing” between Shelby and Cox has to do with improvement. We haven’t seen that from Shelby as the year progresses but we have from Cox.
I understand he isn’t setting the world on fire and that his low OBP is troublesome but since the awful April Cox is at .283/.311/.450/761 this year–his first year in AAA. I understand that’s not awesome–but he is getting better.
Hopefully we will see the same improvement from Shelby in the second half of the season.
Two top prospects who have hit rough patches in AAA. Both young for league (one near-absurdly) and in their first experience of AAA.
Multiple players on that Memphis team have World Series rings. AAA is a high level of baseball. Cox is in his 2nd full season of professional baseball after being drafted as a Sophomore. Miller is in his 3rd, coming out of high school. They both performed well in AA.
I just don’t see what the concern is about. What kind of realistic expectation are they under-performing? Staying in AAA, performing decently, not needing to be demoted because they can’t hack it: this is good for players of these ages and profiles.
I would need more information before I could say that Miller is not learning or progressing. What, specifically, is he working on now? FB control, quality of his curve or its location, pitch location and efficiency? That he needs to take better care of himself over the off-season?
If neither experiences significant injuries this season, if they don’t need to be demoted because of poor performance, if they end the year with a body of work that looks forward to another season in AAA, should that not be considered significant success?
No, Shelby Miller’s 2012 season should not be considered “significant success” if he is not demoted and has a “body of work that looks forward to another season in AAA”
That would be a “significant success” for John Gast and Tyler Lyons.