Springfield took an early lead and held on throughout the game to go up 2 games to 1 in the series over the Tulsa Drillers. Springfield’s bullpen looks to be a strength when they can simply lean on their top relievers.
- Kolten Wong was 1-for-4.
- Oscar Taveras was 2-for-4 with a double.
- Greg Garcia was 1-for-3 with a walk.
- Audry Perez was 2-for-3 with a double.
- Kevin Siegrist went 5 innings allowing 4 hits and 3 walks for 2 runs. He struck out 3. Siegrist needed 86 pitches to complete his 5 innings.
- Michael Wacha struck out 2 and allowed 1 hit in 2 innings.
- Eric Fornataro struck out 1 in a perfect 8th inning.
- Keith Butler finished the game with a 1 hit, 1 walk 9th. He struck out 1.
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It will be interesting to see Wacha pitch as a starter next season.
I agree. I am excited to see what he can do over 6+ innings.
What will be more exciting is to see Taveras in right field for the Cards next year.
No place for him with carpenter, craig and Adams….especially at age 21.
Look for Taverez to in 2014. he might get called up on the back end next year, but probably doesn’t go north with the team.
Taveras may end up in RF long term but CF where he’s developed throughout his career. He’s only played a small sample size of games in RF in his minor league career.
I know that Jay is an above average defender in CF right now but you don’t know the organizations long term plans for him, also when your looking for positions for Adams, and Craig. In my opinion I see Taveras in CF long term.
Think of this projected lineup in 2014
1.Wong
2.Taveras CF
3.Holliday LF
4.Craig RF
5.Freese 3B
6.Adams 1B
7.Molina C
8.Jackson/Garcia SS
9.Pitchers spot
Full of potential run producers and contributors.
*Wong 2B
I question the idea that Craig will hold up physically in the OF; in other words, I think that 1B needs to be his primary position…so if Adams develops, it seems like either he or Craig could be traded…jmho
According to Rick Horton, Craig has said he finds playing outfield easier than 1B. Who knows if he really said that. I don’t like Craig in RF because of his arm. I could see Craig as a long term replacement for Holliday in LF … but can you keep both Adams and Craig as primarily 1B until such time as Holliday is done? That would be a stretch as Holliday has 5 years left on this contract.
The book is still out on Taveras in Center. An I am not sure we are to the point where he pushes a superior defender out of the spot. If a trade were to be made, I think Adams gets moved before John Jay….
But your scenario does have a lot of power potential, which I like. Its a slow line up, but speed is overrated. In 2014, In that situation, I would go with:
Garcia (R)
Wong (L)
Holliday (R)
Craig (R)
Taveras/Adams (L)
Freese/Molina (R)
Adams/Taveras (L)
Freese/Molina (R)
I would normally agree with you but the way Taveras continues to surpass expectations, I put nothing past him at this point.
Taveras may fit better in RF long term but your underrating his defense in CF with his much improved defensive abilities this season.
I don’t think his defense is overrated or underrated at this point. We just have to wait and see. I am penciling RF because that is where a spot is most likely to open up, not because of ability.
Just remember, Rasmus was rated as a great CF when he was in AA as well. That never showed up in the majors. I am just unsure of defensive ratings for such young players.
This has been my first season on this board. I have enjoyed the game details, explanations, and opinions of both the authors and commenters. Will you be covering the upcoming Instructional league?
We will cover the AFL.
Would love that line up with OT in CF.
Jon Jay’s not going anywhere….guy is an A+ hitter, and is incredible in the field…. If Taveras comes to STL he’ll fit just fine in RF…Allen Craig will be great at first (and an MVP!!) i ccould see mgt making a big move for a shortstop depending on what happens with Furcal, and if so then i def see Matt Adams being one of the players traded…So guess its my turn for a lineup:
Jay
Wong
Holliday
Craig
Freese
Taveras
Molina
Descalso
And one of many great SP’s
I will be shocked and amazed if by 2014, we haven’t traded some extra arms/players for a shortstop.
I wouldn’t. Its not like there are that many good, young short stops. Plus a team willing to trade them.
We desperately need one. My number 1 trade chip would actually be Jaime Garcia, cost controlled #3 starter might get us what we need by himself.
I feel like his arm has had some abuse early in his career and when he reestablishes himself it might be time to sell high.
I agree they are in short supply. you may not get one ready made to play, but there are good developmental shortstops out there. Texas ha Luis Sardinas behind Andrus/Profar. Cleveland has several pretty good young shortstops in their system. and yes, you would likely have to overpay for one. I just don’t see that this would be a problem at this time. there are a glut of arms that will come up w/i the next 2-3 years. you can’t have them all on the roster at once. it makes sense to seek out someone who needs pitching/maybe plus a player for a shortstop. we could put Wong in a shortstop deal. we have many 2nd base prospects. wong and a pitcher for Sardinas, or another make sense to me. but you are right, you have to find a trade partner who is willing. If I had sveral good young SS’s, I would ask the moon for any one of them.
Sardinas doesn’t solve any short term needs. He’s 19 in A ball and not close to ready offensively. The team might as well draft a better SS prospect in the meantime.
short term, yes, I agree. I guess my thought is that the Card’s havent shown themselves to be a team good at drafting shortstops recently. drafting lower in the first round has it’s drawbacks. I would say it is just as problematic to say go draft a shortstop when they have have not shown the ability to get those guys in the draft. trading or a good ss prospect, with the deep system they have now, appears to me to be the best option to acquire one of these guys.
Adams is one of the few guys in our organization that could hit 30 home runs in the majors. Why would you trade him? Criag is very good so he needs to be in the lineup everyday. Taveras is a future star. Hr also has to play every day and hopefully very soon. Jay is a good player but never going to be a star. If I had to choose between Adams and Jay I would take Adams and Jay would have to be a 4th outfielder or moved. That would be tough to do because Jay is playing awesome. Adams is younger, will put up better numbers and hasn’t failed anywherr he has played yet. Our system is lacking true power and Adams has that. I hope we keep him.
Need to take a step back a bit and look at the broader picture.
Jay has shown success in the major leagues. That is nothing to be brushed away so easily.
We don’t even know if Taveres or Adams will be successfull in the majors, or if OT can handle Center. Jay might be our only Centerfielder. Also, we don’t know if Craig can be an everyday Of. Might be better to move him to first. Just too many unkowns at this point to deal jay.
I wonder if the Cards hold onto Adams because of the possible move, with an equal number of teams in each league next year (with Astros going to the AL West), to the DH across the major leagues. Given how fast Selig pushed the second wildcard spot into place, I keep thinking a universal DH might be in the offing. With at least one interleague game being played at all times, I would be surprised if they kept it different in one league than the other.
The Cards have plenty of talent to trade if they’re willing to be bold. If they think Taveras is ready to play CF, they can offer Jay, a potential all-star.
If they think Craig is the long-term answer at first, they can offer Adams. He might have limited short-term value to an NL team, but he could be a monster acquisition for an AL team. This year at Memphis he put up a .415 wOBA — despite a 5.4% walk rate — and a .295 ISO in his first exposure to AAA competition.
He just turned 24 last week, and I think an AL team willing to be patient with his lack of patience (along with his defense and conditioning) could be rewarded with a very good middle-order bat for as long as they can afford him.
Adams + one of our pitchers could be a sweet deal. With a healthy Carpenter there’s only one open slot for Lynn (easy to forget he was all-star, voted in by the players), Miller, Kelly, and Rosenthal. That’s with Martinez and Wacha in AA/AAA, and a few guys like Gast and Lyons showing some promise.
I don’t think any GM whose team has a shortstop we want would hang up on Mo if he started the conversation with those names.
thanks for saying better than I did. I see our glut of corner guys, 2nd/3rd baseman and pitching as a perfect chance to go out and try to get a really good prospect…..or a legitimate long term solution, if possible. I really do see Mo going all out to try and get that kind of player, whether he be developmental still, or an established young player. we have the ammo…..our powder is dry…to sure make it hard to pass up for someone else.
adams + a pitcher for asdrubal
considering indians strength at SS in the minors and the expendability of adams this could be lovely for both sides
i think im on to something here…
possible. Cleveland is pretty left handed dominant in their lineup, I would thing they would want a RH bat to even things out some. Also, I guess it matters as to what you are looking for in your shortstop. cabrera is not maybe a prototypical leadoff guy, if you want him to take Furcal’s spot. If you are convinced Jay is that answer, and that Taveras will play elsewhere, or that Wong can be that guy, then it makes sense. I think the lineup is pretty slow now. I would prefer a little more speed in our lineup, but we could do a lot worse (and have) than cabrera at SS.
Can’t see the Indians dealing Asdrubal Cabrera he hasn’t even reached his full ceiling only if it’s the right the deal. Indians will ask for Taveras, and Martinez and that’s just starting out conversations.
indians wont keep him in FA
this is for 2 years of him
if they put him on the market, the bidding would be pretty energetic. I think they would ask for Craig first off. A RH bat to balance out the lineup. that would make me pause. glad I’m not Mo. THe reason they would trade him is that they have Lindor in the wings, granted it may be a few years, but not I think they would get the most if they trade him, still young and with some upside, possibly. if they are wanting to re-tool, it makes sense, if they want to compete now, probably not happening. sure is fun think about him at short instead of our internal options.
i believe 4 of their 5 top prospects are shortstops with lindor at the top
youre right
might be craig instead of adams
that would be a tough decision
could be like adams and rosie+ like maness or adams and tyrell jenkins + gast
Maybe not. Cleveland may find Matt Adams more interesting than most. Their long-time DH, Travis “Pronk” Hafner, bats LH, is getting rather long in the tooth, and is approaching the end of a rather expensive contract that includes a team option and buyout for 2013. Adams looks like a highly credible replacement for a guy like that.
I would pass. I think its too much to give up for a guy who really isn’t a great fit for this line up.
The 25 homeruns came from nowhere. Is it sustainable? But the cards really don’t need the home runs, they need a guy who can get on base for the homerun hittrs. Which is why elvis is interesting.
to me, he certainly fits the profile of the team need more than cabrera. I just don’t know what Texas would want. they are competing now. if they put Profar at ss, and shift Kinsler to the role Young has been playing the last few years, then they need a 2nd baseman. Wong? and what else would it take? their lineup is pretty deep, pitching would be the obvious thing, but would they go for prospects at this stage? I think it will take a pretty good match to their needs to get Andrus from them, at least this year. and they need LH bats more, I can just see Taveras as the first name asked for. this is one of the reasons I think going for a developmental prospect would be easier. Sardinas would be a target I think I could live with paying for.
elvis and asdrubal have almost identical career OBP
elvis though is faster
i know elvis plays good defense and that asdrubal makes the highlight reel often but idk how his defense is overall honestly and i dont much trust defensive metrics
asdrubal would look better in a cardinals uniform …..
i would much rather trade prospects to the indians than the powerhouse rangers…
Elvis is 2 years younger and each year his .obp increased. Asdrubal .obp kind of lfuctuates.
I don’t care where we trade players to.
id take age 27 season and age 28 season of asdrubal
over age 25 and 26 season of andrus
youre only getting 2 years of both remember
and anyways obp isnt the only important thing
asdrubal and elvis have virtually identical .woba this season and elvis plays in a more pitcher friendly park (may be non factor because he isnt a power guy)
good point on the 2 years.
But I like locking players up.
if we traded for him lineup in 2013-2014 could look like
1. Wong/DD/JJ
2. Asdrubal
3. Holliday
4. Craig/Taveras
5. Beltran/Taveras/Craig
6. Molina
7. Freese
8. DD/JJ
9. Pitcher
what about Taveras for Profar? even up?
lol i would do that in a heartbeat but texas would be dumb if they did
How about Trevor Rosenthal pitching out of a bases loaded with no outs jam without giving up a run showed some poise and a consistent mid 90s fastball with late life and swing and miss hard slider.
I’m a huge Rosenthal fan. Considering he finished last season at Quad Cities, it is just amazing what he has accomplished this season. I personally place Rosenthal ahead of Miller as a prospect. This reminds me of when we had Danny Haren and Anthony Reyes as our top two pitching prospects with Adam Wainwright slotted behind them but with much less hype. I hope neither Rosenthal nor Miller turns into Reyes.
lol anthony reyes….
ill still take miller over rosenthal personally but ive become a huge fan of rosie
If we want a shortstop with high OBP numbers, he may already be in the organization. At both Palm Beach last year, and Springfield this year, Greg Garcia posted an on-base of .400 or better — while being age-appropriate for both leagues.
To put Greg’s 2012 performance into context, last year Matt Adams won the T.L. MVP as a first baseman with an excellent wRC+ of 137.
This year, at the same exact age Adams was last year, Garcia posted a wRC+ of…137.
You read that right; Greg’s OBP was so good (and leaguewide offense down a notch from ’11), that the middle infielder’s hitting contribution precisely equalled that of Matt Adams twelve months earlier.
I realize everyone hear knows about Garcia. But perhaps, like yours truly, some readers hear didn’t realize just *how* good Garcia was this year (and last year at Palm Beach, for that matter).
Sooooo, can he stick at short?
im not getting my hopes up on garcia
Sorry I am late to this discussion, but I want to add my opinion nonetheless. I think we are showing Jon Jay too much love here. He is a good player, but if you really think he is an outstanding CF you probably aren’t watching enough games not involving the Cardinals. His arm is below average and his range is good, but not elite.
In spite of this being his third year in the bigs I still don’t know what his offensive profile is. I think his .396 OBP is an outlier as is his 80% success rate stealing bases.
Don’t get me wrong – I am not unhappy with him, but if we can get something of value for him before he becomes too costly then I say sell high. I doubt that the Cardinals address SS with Furcal still under contract for next year, so I am in no hurry to make a move. Just don’t think it is reasonable to say Jay should block OT from playing CF when he is ready for the show.
I agree that Jay has a poor arm to go with decent range. But the fact of the matter is that he is one of the top CF in ML baseball right now. He has a 131 wRC+. That is on par with Adam Jones, Austin Jackson or Yoenis Cespedes. And he’s not even to arbitration.
the question is really only what to do with OT next year. But he can start in AAA and be prepared to come up for any Cards OF who gets injured. RF or CF is his in 2013. at that point, we can decide what to do with Adams, Jay, Craig, and OT for 3 spots (1B, RF, CF)
It will be interesting to see how Matheny mixes and matches names in the lineup next season.
Jay owns a 131 wRC+ in only 397 ABs if he were eligible he would be 5th in the ML in wRC+. Jay has showed a lot of progression with the bat in his first three season but not sure his offensive profile long term to hold up. But defensively he’s 2nd in UZR trailing Michael Bourn at 8.2. It will be interesting to see how the organization approaches this situation since Taveras has only groomed as a CF in his career.
I agree with what you are saying and I am not a Jay hater. Nevertheless, in his 800+ PA prior to this season his ML wRC+ was 112. His UZR/150s were 2.9 and 3.2 as opposed to this year’s 14.4. You just have to decide if he has elevated his game or if you think 2012 might constitute a “career year”. As recently as 8/5 his season OPS was in line with his prior year numbers. The only evidence he is a superior offensive player has been built in the last 30ish days.
He may have turned a corner like Yadi, but I would be more than happy to engage a trade partner who believes Jay to be an All-Star caliber player and see what they would offer. My personal opinion is that he is not in the class of the other CFs you have mentioned, but I have been wrong before.
There’s no reason to chop up the sample size (indeed, you should not). At his career numbers (118 wRC+, +9.4 UZR/150 in CF), he’s All-star quality. It’s not necessary to think he’s “turned a corner.”
Career year? At 27? In only his second season as a full time player?
All I am trying to say is that Jon Jay had about a thousand MLB PAs where his offensive profile as measured by wRC+ was most similar to Shane Victorino, BJ Upton, and Dexter Fowler. For the past month+ he is hitting .382/.453/.480/.993 with a BABIP of .447. To refer to him as one of the top CFs in ML baseball right now with a wRC+ of 131 highly values right now. If another MLB team wants to value him at that level and is willing to make a trade offer based on that valuation I think it would be very shrewd indeed to consider moving Jay. He is certainly the most valuable position player we have that has a ready replacement, especially with Adams injured.
The only CFs to perform at that level over the last three years are Josh Hamilton, Matt Kemp, and Andrew McCutcheon. Until his latest offensive tear Jay’s production looked a lot more ordinary. I am not ready to project that type of production from him (wRC+ = 131) going forward.
The point is that no one is projecting 131 going forward. But you don’t need to for him to be a top CF. You could simply project him at his career numbers.
As for counting his recent hot streaks. Who cares? Every players’ numbers are composed of hot streaks and cold streaks. It’s completely unpersuasive to say that if you remove his best periods he’ll look worse. Of course he will! So will every other player.