The Cardinals are going through the process of updating their minor league affiliates on whether they plan to extend contracts with them.. The Cardinals have already announced an extension with the cash strapped Memphis organization (who has one of the best ballparks in the minor leagues, which is the root cause of their financial situation).
It appears the agreements with the Quad Cities River Bandits and the Batavia Muckdogs are less likely to continue — though not impossible at this stage. Per Steve Batterson:
The Cardinals are expected to announce today that they have chosen not to renew affiliation agreements with Quad-Cities and the club’s short-season Batavia affiliate in the New York-Penn League.
[...]If no agreement is reached by Sept. 30, teams will be assigned an affiliate by Oct. 7. All existing minor-league clubs are guaranteed a major-league affiliate.
The Quad Cities move surprises me a bit but given the plethora of Low A teams essentially on the market right now, the Cardinals may be pursuing this from a strict business sense of negotiating a new deal and the leverage that availability has created.
(h/t bgh)
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That would be a shame. My son and I liked going up to QC for a weekend game and then heading to Field of Dreams the next day before heading back to St. Louis.
There is speculation over at Viva El Birdos that the Cubs are moving out of Peoria. The Cards used to have their affiliate in Peoria before they moved to QC, so the possibility is being made that the Cards will move back there. Too bad I recently moved away from Bloomington, IL. Peoria was an easy drive when the Cards affiliate was there.
I’d love it if the Cards moved to Peoria. It was one of the ballparks I was able to get to last year to watch the QC team play. Cuts down drive time better than half.
The low A move to Peoria seems like a lock now. I know they wanted to be there but the local Peoria ownership decided to go with the Cubs a few years ago. Now that they’ve lost the Cubs (its final, btw) they’re probably going to crawl over broken glass to get the Cards back.
The Cubs announced a couple of weeks ago that they are moving their Midwest League affiliate to Kane County, so a move to Perioa makes a lot of sense.
Peoria Journal Star’s Kevin Capie’s blog about the Peoria Chiefs has some illuminating blog posts
Check Swings
Anyone want to buy my Muckdogs cap?
Are teams required to arrange an affiliation with an existing location/team? Or are they free to negotiate an affiliation with a new location that has not yet had a team?
All minor league teams are guaranteed a major-league affiliate. If they can not come to an agreement with one, they get assigned one by MLB. The Cardinals could not, say, negotiate with the St. Paul Saints to put a minor league club there.
Yes someone let it slip that Cubs are going to Kane County which will open up Peoria. So I would figure Cardinals will go there since it is closer to St.Louis.
Here’s somebody rotting for Peoria; I live in B-N and would love it if they were 45 minutes away.
When they switched their affiliation the last time from the Cards to the Cubs, I replied to an email from their marketing department that they were now dead to me and they can remove me from their list. I’d be happy to start following them again :)
“rooting” not “rotting”
I think if this does come true (Single A moving to Peoria) there’s going to be a big rush of excitement in this area. While Peoria is fairly split between Cubs and Cards, there are a ton of Cardinal fans in the more rural areas and I could see a lot of people coming just for that. Granted, the Peoria Chiefs have done well attendance-wise, but this would be just as big for the team and town.
It looks as if Peoria is definitely losing the cubs to Kane County so I’m sure they’re in full pursuit of the Cardinals to replace them. And, reading the writing on the wall (them announcing they will not be returning to Quad Cities), I think the Cardinals are pretty excited to be moving back to Peoria as well.
Other than making some fans happy and other sad because of simplified/diminished rooting interest and ease of access, do these changes matter? Is there any difference between Peoria and QC, for example, for developing players? I can imagine some marginal effects like one being more of a pitcher’s park than the other — not clear what effect that has on player development, though. There may be socialization issues too for kids a long way from home, particularly native Spanish speakers who may find more people in town who speak Spanish in one (probably Peoria) than the other. One would think that would have little effect on player development, but who knows. Are there other differences that should cause one to prefer one host city over the other?
No. There is no difference between Quad Cities and Peoria from a player development angle. Both are very nice stadiums.
As for more Spanish speakers in Peoria than the Quad Cities, well that must mean there are no more than about 5 Spanish speakers in the Quad Cities. I kid a little, but there really isn’t much of a Hispanic population in Peoria. According to wikipedia, the percent of Peoria’s population that is Hispanic/Latino is 2.51%
I saw that too, in some stats at Wikipedia. The proportions are higher in at least three of the QC communities.
It’s conceivable that Spanish speakers in Peoria may be more “accessible” to young players, however, because of Bradley University, which is probably responsible for a fair bit of that percentage and is close to a minor-league player’s demographic in terms of age, etc. Hard to tell, though. Again, I have no idea how much difference things like that really make. That’s my real question: what kinds of things do affect the way kids develop in the low minors? I find it hard to believe that there are no effects at all, but I have no idea what they are.
I really don’t think there are any developmental advantages other than Peoria being a better fit geographically. Let me tell you, that stadium in Geneva, IL where the cubs are moving to is no where close to the stadium in Peoria. Peoria is a great setup. Kane County is old and out-dated. Every year they do “enhancements” but every year I go back and all it looks like they did was “maintenance”.
There’s no reason for the cubs to leave Peoria other than they want the team closer to Chicago so they can market it. Same reason the Cardinals will want to be back in Peoria. Quad Cities and Peoria both have great stadiums.
Now. In regards to the Spanish speaking community in Peoria and the importance of Bradley students being the same age as the ball players. 1) I don’t think there is enough of a Spanish-speaking population in Peoria to make any type of difference at all. As a matter of fact, I’ve hear (not sure the legitimacy of the claims) that the Cardinals have had trouble with some of their Latin players (and maybe some of the other players as well) in Palm Beach which not only has a much more vibrant night life, but a much more visable Latin community. Something about this came up from someone when Martinez was promoted to Springfield while still being on the DL. Might hold water, might not. Either way, I don’t think the Latin community in Peoria is affecting things either way.
Now, my second point. I highly doubt Bradley students and professional ball players run in the same circles at all. First of all, the ball players stick pretty tight with each other but they do have clicks. Secondly, you’re just dealing with two different types of people. Simply stating that they’re similar in age is not nearly enough to think they’re going to be compatible. The ball players do fine on their own and honestly, college kids aren’t exactly the type of people I’d think the organization would want them hanging out with. Oh, and remember this too. The ball players work nights and travel a lot. But most importantly, they’re simply different and I’d suspect little to no interaction would be taking place.
Also, speaking from my somewhat limited but expanding view of Peoria and it’s makeup, I don’t get the sense that Peoria is a college town at all. It’s not like Champaign or Carbondale or DeKalb or Macomb. Peoria is a big town/city all on its own….and then there’s a big college here too. You don’t feel much difference in Peoria between the times when students are in town or on break.
Honestly, I think you’re thinking way too much into this. It pretty much boils down to the Cardinals taking advantage of an opportunity to move one of it’s teams closer to St. Louis in a great baseball town with a really good history of supporting it’s minor league team.
I think you’re reading more into my question than I intend. No axe to grind here; I’m genuinely curious about what’s involved in player development.
I’m an ex-Normalite and may have played high-school ball in the Peoria park (well, not “played” — I rode the pines almost all season — but watched my teammates play…), if it was the same park back then — that was rather a long time ago. I still have relatives in both the Peoria and the QC areas, and I personally would be happy to see either wind up with the low-A team. Just wondering what’s better for the Cardinals, that’s all.
I’ve been hearing the Peoria is having money issues and that there’s a possibility that the team could move to St. Paul in 4-6 years. It’s part of the reason that the Cubs plan on leaving and speculation that the Twins could switch there. They are leaving Beloit (which is a pit).
Out of curiosity, where are you hearing this about the money issues in Peoria leading to them moving to St. Paul which is causing the cubs to want out?
Here is an articles on the issues with money:
http://www.pjstar.com/news/x1386887997/Peoria-Chiefs-organization-hit-with-financial-losses
The moving to St. Paul part is speculation I’ve heard. St. Paul received approval on financing for a new stadium and it looks nice that something than the Saints (of the American Association) would play in.
I’ve also heard that the Cardinals will announce tomorrow that they are moving back to Peoria. Rumor is Houston is the leading organization for Quad Cities. Twins will be leaving Beloit and are linked to Fort Wayne. Beloit is looking like it’ll be either the Athletics, Nationals, or Royals.
Hmm. Wonder who in the Houston organization is behind that push? Couldn’t be anybody we know, could it?
No kidding. I was SHOCKED!, I tell you…SHOCKED!, to learn of this development!
For long term security, maybe the Cardinals buy the Chiefs and the stadium, in part because of the conenient location.
We live in Normal. (notice i used the verb to live, not to be)
When the Cards were in Peoria, we attended around 20 games. We see QC more like 4 to 6.
I suppose the biggest difference in the two cities that the players will note is that both have strip joints.
The major one in Peoria is downtown only four blocks from the ball park. In Davenport, they are more out on the north end and would require drive time, and return while intoxicated.
Both parks are new and comfy. QC has the beautiful backdrop of the river and the lighted bridge. Outstanding. Peoria has Born Paint, although Peoria is apparently the northern end of the palm tree range.
Peoria has better seating. The grandstand at QC is just aluminum benches. Seating at Peoria is all comfortable chairs and i believe the park holds more people. They have several more upper boxes. Peoria has two upper boxes with stadium seating that QC does not have. That’s hundreds extra seats, i guess. They include picknicking space. I have not been in them since we left the supporters club. When the Cards left, i knew we would be in QC more weekends and not helping the boosters.
Both parks are tough home run shots. CF in Peoria is just death valley. I’ve only seen about three guys (including Chris Duncan) reach the CF screen. Few balls reach CF in QC either. I suspect the high CF screen or the river breezes may be the reasons.
Turnout seems about the same to me, but i don’t watch it closely. QC has sellouts for fireworks. Peoria for concerts combined with fireworks. I see a relatively large distribution of Cubs hats at QC. Less so in Peoria, when the Cards were there. At the change, the makeup of crowds changed completely. I didn’t think that early on, Peoria drew better for having the Cubs, but they made a fortune in selling cheap beer for the same old price.
Incidently, after the change to the Cubs, Peoria developed the finest scorecard i have ever seen, and they stopped charging for them. I assume they give them away because so few Cubs fans are literate. If they were, they would read about the Cubs history and would understand the jokes we tell.
There was some fear in the Peoria stands that the Cards might be sufficiently angered by the way they were shoved out that they would tell Peoria to stick it. Apparently not. The other close franchises in the Midwest League are not of the calibur of either QC or Peoria. Kane County is a nice park, but it is older now and less aesthetic. I’ve seen Southwest Michigan and that is new park, but it and the rest of the Michigan and Ohio parks are a long way from St Louis. Peoria is almost as close to the Lou as we are, because of the freeway proximity. Makes it easier to scout and rehab. But, it should give them more opportunity to build fan base.
And finally, the food offered in QC is 1000 times superior to Peoria, where sometimes hot dogs are still half raw.
I’d prefer the Cards put the low A team on the outskirts of the STL metro area as the Cubs are doing. Some place like Alton, IL or St. Peters, MO. If they shopped a stadium deal to comparable communities in the area, I think they would get some help with muni bonds to build a new stadium, maybe some free land, some sort of subsidized deal. That sort of thing makes more sense if the organization owns the low A team and the new stadium. Attendance would be strong.
I don’t think they can just up and do that.
First of all, what league are they going to play in? The two options are the Midwest League and the South Atlantic League.
Secondly, none of this would happen without the ownership group of whatever minor league team the Cardinals were in either was sold or moved, with league (MWL) approval.
There are rules within MLB that if a city/minor league team has a minor league affiliation with a major league team, they are then entitled to have a team for the foreseeable future. In other words, since the Peoria Chiefs are a current MiLB team (as of last season), then they must have a parent MLB club next season. If there is no team that signs with them, then MLB will assign whichever MLB team is left without a MiLB team to that city.
They can’t just pull out and create their own teams wherever they want. 1) MLB doesn’t allow it and 2) The League they were trying to get into probably wouldn’t accept the team, especially since in this case it would most certainly be the Midwest League, since there is an abandoned city/team in the league.
Tackle is correct. I spent a few seasons as a lowly intern with a minor league team, and both the different leagues and MiLB as a whole are VERY strict about teams who have minor league affiliations. The agreement that MiLB has with MLB specifically prevents this kind of thing from happening.
They could buy the team and move it. I doubt it would be hard to get approval for a move in the STL area but they might cannibalize their own attendance a bit.
The last 2 years I’ve been to quite a few River Bandit games in QC. It’s a great park and atmosphere but for me it’s about a 3 hour drive. I also go to quite a few Peoria games which is only an hour away from me. They have quite a few Cardinal/Cub promotional nights and anytime the River Bandits play the Chiefs the crowd is half red and half blue. The Cardinals moving to Peoria can help continue that trend.
I would be so happy if they go back to Peoria. Not sure where else they would go. Most of the other teams and stadiums are far inferior to both QC and Peoria.
Peoria gives the advantage of a natural fan base for the Cardinals, a natural rival in Kane County with the new Cubs up there.
Looks like State College will be replacing Batavia as the Short Season Rookie Ball affiliate of the Cardinals. http://www.centredaily.com/2012/09/16/3338652/sources-state-college-spikes-to.html